If You Where The Inspector

[e57]

I say lets go back to fuses - reliable IMO - if it has blown before it dont work. I see the point on breakers sethas is making though, and as mentioned earlier in the thread - 'we don't know if new ones even work' as specified.

Sandsnow - On your job describtion musings earlier - I got a great quote from an Inspector a while back while walking through with a Plumbing Inspector at the same time mine was going on.... "Look - I'm not your 'Quality Control' guy...." I can only assume that his inspection went a lot worse than mine.....

 

[LarryFine]

How do you know how many times that breaker has tripped, how hot it is has got? Point being, if it is a critical part of the electrical system don't take chances. Never reuse something that you have no knowledge of, after all, how much does the breaker cost???????Don't be a cheap ass, do it right.

What about this post cannot equally apply to the breakers in our panels right now? Why mustn't we replace breakers as a matter of routine? How about built-in trip-counters?

What does unplugging a breaker from one panel and installing it in another do to a breaker that unplugging it from a panel and re-installing it in the same panel does not do (presuming proper type matching all around)?

 

[joe tedesco]

Defective equipment?

Defective equipment?

What if the used equipment was subjected to this situation? The CB's would work, maybe would be fine, but the question is will they still function properly?

I know of a company called PEARL who has developed standards for reconditioning of used electrical equipment, check them out too.

 

[LarryFine]

What if the used equipment was subjected to this situation? The CB's would work, maybe would be fine, but the question is will they still function properly?

"I don't think so, Tim!" ~ Al Borland

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Uh... so? If the customer wanted to, they could not have the panel replaced and continue to use those breakers for another 100 years. The light switches in the place have moving parts too. Is somebody going to make me replace all the light switches when I reconnect the lighting branch circuits to the new panel, since they're "used"?

I'd prefer to put in new breakers too, but as I've said before, there is an installation method for every budget. I serve everyone from the guttermost to the uttermost. The only qualification is that they be able to pay the bill. If reusing breakers when doing the heavy up will bring the price into their range, I'm happy to do it.

We are not talking about leaving equipment in place - I agree equipment that is not failing can stay forever.

Reconnecting the branch circuit or feeder conductors into a panel that is being replaced, and all other portions of the wiring system are not the point of our conversation.


I believe that there should be a budget for every installation method...



The thread discussion has been generally in the direction of whether we agree that when installing a NEW panel as part of a service upgrade, whether or not to use NEW or EXISTING (could be old) circuit breakers.

If you are misinterpreting my posting as to meaning replace all of the wiring in a building when changing out a service, I think that you are stretching it quite a bit and that has not been my intention at all.


When I post on the different sites, I certainly am under no delusion to think that I will change any poster's wiring methods to suit my ideas...I am sure that you will continue on your way.
My posts are merely to do what most other guys are doing when they post here...satisfy my own ego.

 

[iwire]

The thread discussion has been generally in the direction of whether we agree that when installing a NEW panel as part of a service upgrade, whether or not to use NEW or EXISTING (could be old) circuit breakers.

If you are misinterpreting my posting as to meaning replace all of the wiring in a building when changing out a service, I think that you are stretching it quite a bit and that has not been my intention at all.

So beyond the ego thing , what is your intention here?

It appears you are saying that if you replace a panel you must also replace the breakers even if the old ones are listed for use in the new panel.

If that is what you are saying then I have to ask what NEC section would you cite?

It was my understanding that the design of NEMA equipment is such that it can be reused a number of times while the design of IEC equipment is throw away.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

So beyond the ego thing , what is your intention here?

It appears you are saying that if you replace a panel you must also replace the breakers even if the old ones are listed for use in the new panel.

If that is what you are saying then I have to ask what NEC section would you cite?

It was my understanding that the design of NEMA equipment is such that it can be reused a number of times while the design of IEC equipment is throw away.

I have said that I believe that when replacing a panel and installing new (and I also believe this process should be for any "new" install) services that the circuit breakers should also be new.
I never once mentioned that I inspect that way. I do not write the rules, I try to inspect to the different codes I as a code enforcer see them written.
There are times when I inspect work and I would not be able to tell if the equipment is existing or new. I do not loose sleep over this, just my ego here sometimes. :wink:


P.S.
There is wording in the NYS codes (the primary documents in NYS for determing inspections) that 'discuss' about new equipment for all new installs....I will try to locate it and post it later.
Remember, that NYS does not adopt the NEC, it is our second, sometimes third document of reference for electrical work performed in our state.

 

[radiopet]

Again it is not an NEC thing Iwire....it is a statewide building code which is over and above the NEC ( atleast in my state )

What i am refering to is someone doing a BRAND NEW installation and using old used devices or equipment sitting around........nothing about the other comments here.....also it is got to be given that the Inspector will use good judgement in the process.

However as i have said ( to the point it is redundant )

If they ae doing a new ( NEW) installation they should use new equipment and devices in my opinion, if they are using existing cabinets for junctions then fine as it was not removed.

 

[iwire]

I have said that I believe that when replacing a panel and installing new (and I also believe this process should be for any "new" install) services that the circuit breakers should also be new.

Even that above can be taken either as a personal opinion or a code opinion. :smile:



All I am asking is for people to be clear in their posts.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Gotta draw a line someplace, and if I get gigged for reinstalling something that otherwise already existed, me and somebody are going to the ring.

Put 'em up! Put 'em uuuuup!"

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Branch circuits do not have moving parts

Circuit breakers do have moving parts

So, the next service upgrade will consist of a new, 200a main breaker panel, and a 100a breaker re-feeding the existing 100a panel with the existing branch circuit breakers. Separate and isolate the noodles, and add the one 20a 120v circuit & breaker (new) in the 200a can that necessitated the entire thing.

Acceptable?

But don't dare move the existing breakers into the new 200a can and retire the rusted, crowded 100a can...

Brilliant.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

How do you know how many times that breaker has tripped, how hot it is has got? Point being, if it is a critical part of the electrical system don't take chances. Never reuse something that you have no knowledge of, after all, how much does the breaker cost???????Don't be a cheap ass, do it right.

If reusing existing breakers wasn't commonplace, why do so many electricians keep a milk crate full of used breakers in their vans? Why where there 2 racks of steel shelving full of used breakers in a shop I once worked for?

Honsetly, who here would throw away a used Murray 15/20, 20/20, 20/40, or 30/40 quad?

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

What if the used equipment was subjected to this situation? The CB's would work, maybe would be fine, but the question is will they still function properly?

I know of a company called PEARL who has developed standards for reconditioning of used electrical equipment, check them out too.

Well doesn't that describe damaged or abused equioment, rather than simply used?

 

[ultramegabob]

I see no reason not to be able to re-use a breaker that is "not" suspect to being defective, I would not re-use a breaker that felt sloppy, had any physical defects such as chips or cracks or discoloration from heat, or had damaged or pitted buss contacts.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Even that above can be taken either as a personal opinion or a code opinion. :smile:



All I am asking is for people to be clear in their posts.

90% of what we/I post here is Opinion...I thought we all knew that. If you do not see me posting a section number, it is always an opinion...of which I am full of. I do not have that much influence here on this site.



Most of us here, including myself are not professional writers. Expressing our thoughts may not come across to the readers of our posts as what we were actually trying to say. For me to write a post here and expect anyone to actually understand the concept/thought I may be trying to convey is difficult at best. We all have different backrounds and beliefs, that alone makes conveying the idea(s) an uphill battle. I think we do as good a job at it as we can.
I always understand what I am trying to say. :grin:



I believe the success of this site is built upon the premise of being able to voice one's opinion, whether anyone agrees with it or not.

Bob
You have expressed several times now that I should not inspect as per my discussion on the forum. I am just expressing my opinion, which I will continue to do. I do not respond to your posts telling you to stop installing according to your concepts/ideals....

 

[ultramegabob]

I think this thread is beating a dead horse....

 

[iwire]

Bob
You have expressed several times now that I should not inspect as per my discussion on the forum. I am just expressing my opinion, which I will continue to do. I do not respond to your posts telling you to stop installing according to your concepts/ideals....

Pierre we are having a communication problem here. :smile:

No one is asking you not to provide your personal opinion.

All I am saying is that with the large number of NEC myths out there I think it is wise to say "IMO" or "I personally like to do it like this" etc. Newbies read our posts and it may not always be clear what is code and what is personal choice.

Thats all

Do what ever you want.

Bob

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Pierre we are having a communication problem here. :smile:

No one is asking you not to provide your personal opinion.

All I am saying is that with the large number of NEC myths out there I think it is wise to say "IMO" or "I personally like to do it like this" etc. Newbies read our posts and it may not always be clear what is code and what is personal choice.

Thats all

Do what ever you want.

Bob

I appreciate your permission.

 

[iwire]

I appreciate your permission.

Give me a break will ya, I was trying to be nice.

 

[mpd]

i am just curious, do the contractors who use the re-use old breakers as a sales pitch to save money to get the job, also tell the owner the possible dangers of re-using a circuit breaker that the contractor does not know the history of those circuit breakers