laundry receptacle

[stickboy1375]

What is the specific appliance that is referred to in 210.52(c)?
We have a 30A 240v combo W/D.

Celtic buddie, I dont care what you buy, neither does the NEC, what the NEC does care about is that you have a 120v, 20a receptacle in the laundry area.

 

[iwire]

I dont care what you buy, neither does the NEC, what the NEC does care about is that you have a 120v, 20a receptacle in the laundry area.

I have to agree.

 

[celtic]

Celtic buddie, I dont care what you buy, neither does the NEC, what the NEC does care about is that you have a 120v, 20a receptacle in the laundry area.

Just tell me where it says that...that's all I have been asking.

210.50(C) Appliance Outlets.
Appliance receptacle outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances, such as laundry equipment, shall be installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the intended location of the appliance.

What is the "specific appliance" referred to here?
The W/D?
It's a 240v 30A unit.
The iron?
Why does it have to be "in the laundry area" - and where does it state that?
I may "intend" to have the Mrs. iron in the LR so she can watch TV.

210.52(F) Laundry Areas.
In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the laundry

Where is the requirement that this recept.shall be in the laundry (area).


Where does the NEC state that "you have a 120v, 20a receptacle in the laundry area."?
Where does it state that the 120v cannot be on the second floor, basement, etc (away from the "laundry area")?
In the scenario I described earlier (combo unit in a "closet" in a hallway) there is no "laundry area" to speak of.
There is a wall cavity that fits ONLY the combo unit.


You guys can agree w/each other until the cows come home, but your point hasn't been proven to me.

 

[stickboy1375]

Here is a graphic to simplify this so complicated code issue.

View attachment 2237

 

[480sparky]

You guys can agree w/each other until the cows come home, but your point hasn't been proven to me.

Didn't know we had to.

And now that you mention it, the Cow hasn't chimed in on this one. The dog & goat have, but no cow. :roll:

 

[celtic]

Here is a graphic to simplify this so complicated code issue.

View attachment 2237

All that image shows me is that 120v must be installed - not where...if I put the 120v to the left, is that a violation?

This image clearly shows the 3' boundry for the bath GFCI recept. (and as an added bonus, the switch NOT in the shower:

***************

You guys can agree w/each other until the cows come home, but your point hasn't been proven to me.

Didn't know we had to.

You don't have to - you can chose to...or not.
IMHO, to simply say "that is what the NEC says" w/o being able to prove it actually says that, is rather empty...wouldn't you agree?

***************

I fail to see what is so complicated about my question:
Where does the NEC say the 120v must be IN the laundry or even within 6' of the W/D?

210.50(c) doesn't
210.52(f) doesn't either.

It's pretty simple.

 

[david]

laun?dry [l?wndree]
(plural laun?dries)
n
1. dirty wash: dirty clothes or linen put aside to be washed and ironed
2. clean wash: freshly washed clothes or linen
3. washing and ironing place: a place, especially a commercial establishment or a communal room in a building, where clothes and linen can be washed and ironed

 

[celtic]

laun?dry [l?wndree]
(plural laun?dries)
n
1. dirty wash: dirty clothes or linen put aside to be washed and ironed
2. clean wash: freshly washed clothes or linen
3. washing and ironing place: a place, especially a commercial establishment or a communal room in a building, where clothes and linen can be washed and ironed

We did this already in post #53 on page 6.
Use a different dictionary...same exact definition?

The NEC does define a "laundry area", however the definition is in regards to mobile homes, et al;

552.2
Laundry Area.
An area containing or designed to contain a laundry tray, clothes washer, or a clothes dryer.

I see no mention of ironing

 

[480sparky]

I see no mention of ironing

I don't use an iron. You do. Put the recep where you like.

 

[celtic]

I don't use an iron. You do.

LOL

I don't...but the Mrs. does:

I may "intend" to have the Mrs. iron in the LR so she can watch TV.

:grin:

 

[DanZ]

I fail to see what is so complicated about my question:
Where does the NEC say the 120v must be IN the laundry or even within 6' of the W/D?

210.50(c) doesn't
210.52(f) doesn't either.

It's pretty simple.

celtic, I can't find anything saying 120V is required, but 210.11(C)(2) (which is indicated in the original picture stickboy posted) requires a 20A branch circuit with no other outlets, to supply the laundry receptacle outlets.

It's pretty hard to supply the laundry receptacles if you're on a different floor.

Good luck finding a 20A 220V receptacle. :grin: :roll:

 

[480sparky]

...Good luck finding a 20A 220V receptacle. :grin: :roll:

NEMA L6-20 (twistlock) and 6-20 (straight blade).

 

[celtic]

celtic, I can't find anything saying 120V is required,...

Check the very first line of 210.52

but 210.11(C)(2) (which is indicated in the original picture stickboy posted) requires a 20A branch circuit with no other outlets, to supply the laundry receptacle outlets.

It's pretty hard to supply the laundry receptacles if you're on a different floor.

So what?
Being hard to find is not a violation...

90.1(B) Adequacy.
This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance will result in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.

Good luck finding a 20A 220V receptacle. :grin: :roll:

How about a NEMA 6-20R?

EDIT:
NEMA chart for all:
NEMA Configurations for general-purpose nonlocking Plugs and Receptacles

 

[iwire]

I know it is our SOP to make everything as complicated as possible but can someone help me out here?

Celtic in a direct and concise manor can you spell out what the issue is here?

I don't think it is surprise to anyone that the NEC is not a perfect document, so when all else fails what does your AHJ believe?

 

[celtic]

I know it is our SOP to make everything as complicated as possible but can someone help me out here?

I can try...

Celtic in a direct and concise manner can you spell out what the issue is here?

(I thought I had....but we'll try it again)

Residential dwelling unit.
30A 240v combo W/D unit is located in a "wall cavity" with dimensions that match the combo unit.
This "wall cavity" is located in a 1st floor hallway.
Can the 120v laundry recept. [required by 210.52(f)] be placed on the second floor?

The question is NOT "Is a 20A 120v recept. required?" , but rather - "Where can the 20A 120v recept. be located?"

210.11(c) requires the 20A outlet have no other outlet/s [directing the user to 210.52(f)]

210.52(f) states only that the outlet is required "for" the laundry - no mention that this outlet must be installed in any proximity to the 30A 240V combo unit located in the hallway "wall cavity".

210.52 is pretty specific in detailing where the required outlets are to be placed: walls, small appliance, bathrooms, outdoor outlets, hallways, to name a few.
210.52(f) does not afford the user the luxury of exact requirements for the laundry.

Some have cited 210.50(c) as the appropriate reference.
What is the specific appliance here?
The W/D combo unit rated at 30A 240v?

I don't think it is surprise to anyone that the NEC is not a perfect document, so when all else fails what does your AHJ believe?

AHJ are also not perfect
One AHJ I encountered did not even require the 20A 120v recept.

In a nutshell, the question is:
In the scenario detailed above, can the 120v laundry recept. [required by 210.52(f)] be placed on the second floor?

 

[iwire]

In a nutshell, the question is:
In the scenario detailed above, can the 120v laundry recept. [required by 210.52(f)] be placed on the second floor?

My opinion is that receptacle must be installed in the 'laundry area', that being the case you should be able to install it anywhere the AHJ determines the 'laundry area' to be.

Thats said, IMO it is a very long stretch to expect an AHJ to call someplace on the second floor the 'laundry area' when there is a clearly a laundry area on the first floor.

IMO you will not, can not, get a yes or no answer on this forum for your question. It will be up to the AHJ.

 

[celtic]

A "laundry area" is not defined anywhere but in 550.2.
There is no mention of a "laundry area" in 210.

I understand what you are saying iwire (decision up to AHJ) and I'm fine with your opinion.
I do, however, take exception to opinions that have no substantiation, offering no reference other than:
"Just follow the code"
"It must be within 6' ..."
"It's simple"
"It's not rocket science"

 

[iwire]

There is no mention of a "laundry area" in 210.

210.52(E)Laundry Areas

 

[celtic]

210.52(E)Laundry Areas

Is that in the '08?

 

[ItsHot]

laundry

laundry

You have just reminded me, I have some "laundry" to do! Welcome back Celtic! Loan us some money! Keep him straight Bob!:smile: