NoLox?

[quogueelectric]

No harm no foul, we seldom see aluminum terminations without some sort of NO OX. Does it hurt I would thing NOT, does it help, not sure,

It does make a mess.
It does stain.
Do not get carried away with it a little goes a long way.*
I always use NO OX on ground terminations to buffed steel connections.

Other than that I never use AL except for temporary (after blow ups) and usually for this temp we use multi strand.

* I have never seen this but an IR thermographer told me he saw a NO OX (not sure of the brand) connections that was breaking down from a flow of excessive NO OX between the connector and ground. And like a lot of things I thing I'll try that Monday and never get to it.

Yes the stuff is definitely heat sensitive and conductive. Heat it enough and it will run into bad places. That is why instructions say to remove excess.

 

[cschmid]

To much of anything can have negative results..So use in moderation as it is unsafe to noalox and torque..:grin:

 

[glene77is]

to Alwon:

Check this site. You may become a believer
when you read through this site.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum.htm

# This website answers nearly all questions
about aluminum wiring inspection, hazards, repairs
# How to identify & repair aluminum wiring
# What are the hazards of aluminum electrical wiring?
# What is copper wire pigtailing?
# Sources of COPALUM electricians
& alternative aluminum wiring repair methods

Aluminum will burn.
Aluminum fires have made some money for me.
(My house, my neighbors, three folks down the street,
(all with Aluminum burnouts in recepticals and switches.
(Only one so far with a live fire, and fresh burned smell!

Aluminum will burn without oxygen (magnesium content).
Alum/Magnesium is used for underwater welding.

Alum/Magnesium fire is the result of sinking a guided missile destroyer
in the Falken Islands many years back,
and it burned underwater for 3 days.

 

[peter d]

Check this site. You may become a believer
when you read through this site.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum.htm

I'm a believer that aluminum wiring from the early 1970's is very problematic.

I'm not a believer that anti-oxidant compounds make much difference with modern aluminum alloy, which has nothing in common with the stuff made 30+ years ago.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The new alloy aluminum wire in #10 and #12 sizes came into the market in early 74. When you use that wire with CO/ALR devices, there have been few problems. There were serious problems with the product before that time.
As far as the website that was linked to, there is a fair amount of misinformation mixed in with good information and a lot of the information can be traced back to AMP in an effort to market their solution to the problem.

 

[glene77is]

to Peter D:

I have repaired fire damaged residentials.
In the process, I experimented with the 'purple' wirenuts
and three NoOx compounds available today.
The 'Purple' wirenuts burn and melt
when the NoOx is lite by a match.

I tried the same with some hard-shell wirenuts,
and the NoOx burned,
but the hard-shell wirenuts only smoldered some.

I checked the specs,
and the hard-shell have a much higher temperature rating.

Wish I could remember the name of the high-temp wirenut.
I used them all up on a job.

Anyway,
some of the material we use to prevent fires
will burn when lite by a match.

Makes me more careful than ever.

 

[glene77is]

In the 60's, in Virginia, we used axle grease on all the Aluminum SE for ranges and dryers. Axle Grease! We were also on the sea coast, and the salt would eat anything aluminum, so we were extra careful to coat the joints.

As I understand it, when I use my salty, sweaty hands to install Aluminum wiring, I am catalyzing the oxidation process immediately. This oxide does not rub off, but must be abraded off. 40 lb/in of torque should rub it around, but then the mallable 'creep' effect sets in and everything must be torqued again. During use, the thermal effects occur, and the joint loosens again.

In order to get the NoOx onto 'virgin' Aluminum surface,
I use this sequence:
(1) Dip the wire in NoOx.
(2) Abrade the wire with sandpaper or my sidecutters,
which drags the NoOx Directly onto Freshly Scraped wire.
(3) Land the wiring, and torque. And torque again later.
(4) Clean the greasy stuff off my sidecutters
before they touch anything clean.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

As I understand it, when I use my salty, sweaty hands to install Aluminum wiring, I am catalyzing the oxidation process immediately. This oxide does not rub off, but must be abraded off. 40 lb/in of torque should rub it around, but then the mallable 'creep' effect sets in and everything must be torqued again. During use, the thermal effects occur, and the joint loosens again.

Improper torquing on installation and re torquing after installation are major causes of connection failure for both copper and aluminum terminations.

 

[peter d]

In order to get the NoOx onto 'virgin' Aluminum surface,
I use this sequence:
(1) Dip the wire in NoOx.
(2) Abrade the wire with sandpaper or my sidecutters,
which drags the NoOx Directly onto Freshly Scraped wire.
(3) Land the wiring, and torque. And torque again later.
(4) Clean the greasy stuff off my sidecutters
before they touch anything clean.

Here's what I do:

1) Strip aluminum wire.
2) Land the wiring and torque.
3) Done.

As Don alluded to, retorquing a connection is a very bad idea.

 

[quogueelectric]

Edward Miller from ALCAN Cable

Edward Miller from ALCAN Cable

Fedexed an information package to me upon phone request.
It contained the Alcan handbook,The Alcan cable WIREMANS GUIDE ,A BUNCH OF STABILOY product brochures and 2 nice ALCAN pens with a pen on one side and a highlighter on the other side(yes they are aluminum pens).
He answered my questions on recomended installation by the manufacturer.
1 select the correct wire.
2 srip the insulation without knicking the conductor(3+4 included)
5 wirebrush the conductor as reccomended by the connector manufacturer.
6 Apply a listed oxide inhibiting joint compound
7 insert conductor into connector making sure proper contact is made in the connector collar.
8 Apply conn manufacturers torque it should never have to be retorqued.
Although I havent been retrained on these connections in 25 years untill now I am glad that I brushed up on my CPR technique before I brushed up on my AL wire termination techniques.

 

[Karl H]

Because most of my jobs are so close to the beach here in San Diego.I use Nolox on all my discos and panel lugs.Cu. conductor,Al. lugs. Why not?

 

[wptski]

Fedexed an information package to me upon phone request.
It contained the Alcan handbook,The Alcan cable WIREMANS GUIDE ,A BUNCH OF STABILOY product brochures and 2 nice ALCAN pens with a pen on one side and a highlighter on the other side(yes they are aluminum pens).
He answered my questions on recomended installation by the manufacturer.
1 select the correct wire.
2 srip the insulation without knicking the conductor(3+4 included)
5 wirebrush the conductor as reccomended by the connector manufacturer.
6 Apply a listed oxide inhibiting joint compound
7 insert conductor into connector making sure proper contact is made in the connector collar.
8 Apply conn manufacturers torque it should never have to be retorqued.
Although I havent been retrained on these connections in 25 years untill now I am glad that I brushed up on my CPR technique before I brushed up on my AL wire termination techniques.

How many actually use a torque screwdriver, etc. to tighten to the manufactures specs anyway?

 

[peter d]

From the Southwire website:

How can I be sure I'm making a reliable termination?
A thin layer of oxide naturally occurs on aluminum and copper conductors and will be broken by the physical act of tightening the setscrew connection or crimping the compression connection. Wire brushing aluminum or copper conductors should be performed if the connector manufacturer recommends this in their installation instructions. If required, brush the exposed conductor before applying the oxide inhibitor and terminating the conductor. This will remove the oxide the exposed conductor and remove any contaminants that may interfere with the connection. Oxide inhibitor use is considered good workmanship for all aluminum or copper terminations. The oxide inhibitor provides a barrier at the connection point that prevents moisture and other potentially damaging environmental substances. The oxide inhibitor must be listed for the application. Oxide inhibitors are made for use with copper, aluminum, or both copper and aluminum. Compression connectors typically come filled with an oxide inhibitor. When tested per UL 486B, mechanical set-screw terminations are tested without wire brushing and oxide inhibitor is not added if the connector is pre-filled with an oxide inhibitor.

 

[glene77is]

On a weightlifting machine, I measured a one hand twist at 40 lb/in.
We read the torque requirements and use appropriate size drivers.
My master uses two torque wrenches for Service and large Bolts.

 

[glene77is]

It helps reduce the amount of corrision at the joint which reduces the resistance of the connection which reduces the heating which reduces the expansion

Right to the point!

 

[wptski]

On a weightlifting machine, I measured a one hand twist at 40 lb/in.
We read the torque requirements and use appropriate size drivers.
My master uses two torque wrenches for Service and large Bolts.

You read the specs and use the right size driver but does this mean that everything you tighten by hand is still at 40 in/lbs?

 

[brian john]

My master uses two torque wrenches for Service and large Bolts.

This sounds off topic and a bit racy for this forum TAKE IT TO THE Marquis de Sade forum.

 

[busman]

How many actually use a torque screwdriver, etc. to tighten to the manufactures specs anyway?

I do, but only for terminals. Not for device screws. I've got to admit that it's sometimes difficult to hit 40 or 45 in-lb on a slotted screw.

OK. I admit it. My nickname used to be torker. When working on cars, I'd usually tighten til it broke and then use another and tighten it a little less. I've learned better with electrical.

Mark

 

[wptski]

I do, but only for terminals. Not for device screws. I've got to admit that it's sometimes difficult to hit 40 or 45 in-lb on a slotted screw.

OK. I admit it. My nickname used to be torker. When working on cars, I'd usually tighten til it broke and then use another and tighten it a little less. I've learned better with electrical.

Mark

Mark:

Some torque screwdrivers are ajustable up to 70 in/lbs! What kind of animal can use one to its highest limit?

 

[cschmid]

Mark:

Some torque screwdrivers are ajustable up to 70 in/lbs! What kind of animal can use one to its highest limit?

hmmmm..:roll: