Pictures

[iwire]

Dang boy ! Save some tape for the nexy job :grin: (Panel 2)

:grin:

That was a job at a large facility that supplies all the materials, we charge them by the hour to do whatever they want.

They like pretty colors. :smile:

 

[moresi]

Typical residential wiring job. In my jurisdiction - instant fail. Would have to pull all staples and use insulated staples. Non-insulated staples are not allowed. I am referencing original picture for this post many pages back.

 

[480sparky]

Not sure that cable sheath was designed for securing and supporting the cable??

That would not fly where I work .

No offense, but are 2x4's designed to support NM?

 

[M. D.]

No offense, but are 2x4's designed to support NM?

Yup,..they are

 

[peter d]

In my jurisdiction - instant fail. Would have to pull all staples and use insulated staples. Non-insulated staples are not allowed.

Are you from Massachusetts? You should add your location to your profile so people don't get confused.

 

[wirebender]

Not sure that cable sheath was designed for securing and supporting the cable?? [/COLOR]

Sure it was. It was designed by 220/221. Code doesn't specify who must design it.:smile:

 

[splinetto]

Why dont you just say that gravity is supporting it? Then you would never have to use a staple insulated or not.

 

[peter d]

In the finished state, mine will look and function just like yours.

I can't see thru drywall.:grin:

I agree. I think many people go way overboard with the neatness on resi work that will get covered.

 

[splinetto]

I agree. I think many people go way overboard with the neatness on resi work that will get covered.

What does that fact that itll be covered up have to due with doing NEAT work....It is either neat or not...so you only do code compliant work if it can be seen?....You should change your work practices because you might get away with it....it should be done to code ALL the time.....It reminds me of a guy who asked if his work was going to get inspected(very rural area) so I guess he was going to try to get away with everthing he could .....to me that is unethical....You are being paid to do code compliant work not with what you can get away with work....Maybe im wrong but the code doesnt rank violations it is just as wrong to run the wrong wire size as it is to do sloopy work....I know one may be more of a fire hazard but are both equally wrong

 

[peter d]

What does that fact that itll be covered up have to due with doing NEAT work....It is either neat or not...so you only do code compliant work if it can be seen?....You should change your work practices because you might get away with it....it should be done to code ALL the time.....

I never advocate violating the code nor did I say that I do. The code really isn't an issue here because "neat and workmanlike" is subjective and not enforceable. A job can be messy and still compliant.

My point is that there is a line between "acceptable" workmanship and going overboard and doing a super neat job for something that is going to get covered up and forgotten.

For instance, I don't square corners with the cable, I don't go crazy with staples, I don't mind if the romex twists a little bit every now and then, I don't go overboard with circuiting, etc. Some electricians would never accept what I just mentioned, but I do.

 

[splinetto]

maybe im naive but I dont understand why it would not be "enforceable" and can understand subjective....

 

[peter d]

maybe im naive but I dont understand why it would not be "enforceable" and can understand subjective....

Well, let's take the example that I used. Let's say I staple up the romex with 100 twists in it. Yeah, it would look horrible, and some would say it's not installed in a "neat and workmanlike" manner. But there is no code that is violated, no hazard created, and the installation is safe. So we have a safe installation that is deemed non-compliant because of a subjective rule. Does that make sense?

 

[brantmacga]

and one hole per wire

that, is an absolute waste of time. your work looks fine, but seriously you are wasting money and time, as well as your own physical effort. you can be neat w/o all of those staples. you'll appreciate that if you ever have to replace a wire that someone decided to slice just before the walls got covered up! anyway, you do a fine job so don't take this as a knock. i'll get some pictures of my next rough so you can see how its supposed to be done. oh, and it'll be in plastic and probably have wirenuts!!!!!!!!! get ready boys, i'm coming to the dark side!

 

[splinetto]

Well, let's take the example that I used. Let's say I staple up the romex with 100 twists in it. Yeah, it would look horrible, and some would say it's not installed in a "neat and workmanlike" manner. But there is no code that is violated, no hazard created, and the installation is safe. So we have a safe installation that is deemed non-compliant because of a subjective rule. Does that make sense?

Its in the book regardless if its subjective or not its up to the AHJ discretion

 

[iaov]

In my area, the insulation subs normally take care of the fire caulk and such. They don't check for firestopping and draft stopping on the electrical inspection.

I caulk the holes here as I can't get the inspector to sign off until they are, and we can't insulate until the inspector says OK>

 

[480sparky]

Let me throw this out:

Many, many, many moons ago, I watched an electrician wire a house.

He would take his tape measure around each room and measure up from the floor at each stud, marking them at 20" off the floor. Each and every stud.

Then he would take a square and transfer the 20" mark from the edge of the stud onto the 3-1/2' side of the stud. Each and every stud.

Then he would go back around and measure the center of each stud along that line. Each and every stud.

This way, when he drilled his holes, each one would be exactly 20" off the floor, and exactly in the center of each stud.

I asked him why he did this. "It saves wire", he replied. "I can come up out of the box, have enough stud to staple it, then have a perfectly straight line across the studs. And you know what they say about the shortest distance between two points is....?"

I thought 'this guy spends more time marking out a house than most guys spend boxing, drilling and roping it.' Yea, he may save wire. Maybe a couple bucks even at todays' prices. But he wastes an entire day just marking up the studs.

Neat work? Heck yea! But it was a total waste of time.

 

[peter d]

Its in the book regardless if its subjective or not its up to the AHJ discretion

Not really. An AHJ can't automatically fail an installation because it's not neat. He has to look for a real code violation and cite that.

 

[splinetto]

Im curious as to what inspectors think about this topic..I think if they were to be exposed to what neat work looks like then maybe they would see the contrast in neat work vs. not neat....Maybe there could be a standard set as to what is expected and not just being subjective......The world would be a better place...:grin:

 

[peter d]

I thought 'this guy spends more time marking out a house than most guys spend boxing, drilling and roping it.' Yea, he may save wire. Maybe a couple bucks even at todays' prices. But he wastes an entire day just marking up the studs.

Was he an hourly worker or a contractor? I can't imagine him lasting long as a contractor.

 

[splinetto]

Let me throw this out:

Many, many, many moons ago, I watched an electrician wire a house.

He would take his tape measure around each room and measure up from the floor at each stud, marking them at 20" off the floor. Each and every stud.

Then he would take a square and transfer the 20" mark from the edge of the stud onto the 3-1/2' side of the stud. Each and every stud.

Then he would go back around and measure the center of each stud along that line. Each and every stud.

This way, when he drilled his holes, each one would be exactly 20" off the floor, and exactly in the center of each stud.

I asked him why he did this. "It saves wire", he replied. "I can come up out of the box, have enough stud to staple it, then have a perfectly straight line across the studs. And you know what they say about the shortest distance between two points is....?"

I thought 'this guy spends more time marking out a house than most guys spend boxing, drilling and roping it.' Yea, he may save wire. Maybe a couple bucks even at todays' prices. But he wastes an entire day just marking up the studs.

Neat work? Heck yea! But it was a total waste of time.

And I thought I have OCD problems....