Power Bridge

[PowerBridgeTech]

Then why are we even worried about it? It is in-wall art. Do you have any accent lighting recommendations?

Well thank you it is "artful"
Yes, slap one of the new LED HDTV's on the wall and pop a bag of popcorn and relax. It's just art!

 

[mivey]

Well now hairs are splitting.

Hairs, hares, & heirs. Not sure that what we see in print can be taken as writ.:grin:

By definition, this is not a branch circuit extension as it is not wired to it directly.

Then we are back to substituting for the receptacle required by 210.50(B).

As an example of this requirement:

424.9 General.
All fixed electric space-heating equipment shall be installed in an approved manner. Permanently installed electric baseboard heaters equipped with factory-installed receptacle outlets, or outlets provided as a separate listed assembly, shall be permitted in lieu of a receptacle outlet(s) that is required by 210.50(B). Such receptacle outlets shall not be connected to the heater circuits.

 

[renosteinke]

How does an inlet be energized if not with a cord? A fair question - and I believe I addressed it in my first post on this topic.

In that post I asked the question: When would the use of such a product be legal? I them offered two examples: when part of a portable display, such as you might find used at a trade show, or when the power supply was portable- as with a UPS or a generator.

Using the extension cord to connect between two fixed points is using the cord in place of a permanent wiring method. To be legal, either the inlet or the power supply has to move around.

There are plenty of legitimate products around that have 'inlets.' Most job-site 'spiders' have one. Manual transfer switches have them. Even the computer monitor on your desk has one.

Anything can be misused. One need not make the case that ALL extension cords are misused in ALL circumstances- just that THIS is such a case. Ditto for "all" inlets, etc. Hence my comment that the best chef can make a bad cake with the finest ingredients.

 

[mivey]

In that post I asked the question: When would the use of such a product be legal? I them offered two examples: when part of a portable display, such as you might find used at a trade show, or when the power supply was portable- as with a UPS or a generator.

Another example would be with discharge lighting with an inlet. There is NEC verbage that allows the cord connector from a pendant to act as the supply.

 

[al hildenbrand]

The branch circuit goes from the last overprotection device to the outlet. If we are saying the PowerBridge receptacle is providing the required outlet then what about the branch circuit conductor size on a 20 amp circuit?

If the cord is somehow excluded but we say the in-wall portion is providing the required receptacle, then the wires in the wall are branch circuit conductors. Overcurrent protection is required at point where conductors receive their supply (the cord connector/inlet point).

Well now hairs are splitting. . . .

I don't think this is splitting hairs.

Mivey, your "If" scenario assumes that the "required outlet" of the dwelling was not installed, AND, then your scenario assumes that the PowerBridge is being installed to correct that deficiency.

I think this is a huge assumption, and I think this is highly unlikely, AND it requires the installer to willfully disregard instructions associated with the product.

Bottom line, look at the passage 210.50(B) in context:

2008 NEC
Chapter 2 Wiring and Protection
Article 210 Branch Circuits
III. Required Outlets
210.50 General.
Receptacle outlets shall be installed as specified in 210.52 through 210.63.http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php/134709-Power-Bridge?p=1293207#post1293207

210.50(B) is not part of the specifications of the opening sentence.

 

[mivey]

Bottom line, look at the passage 210.50(B) in context: 210.50(B) is not part of the specifications of the opening sentence.

So you are saying it serves no purpose?

 

[PowerBridgeTech]

How does an inlet be energized if not with a cord? A fair question - and I believe I addressed it in my first post on this topic.

In that post I asked the question: When would the use of such a product be legal? I them offered two examples: when part of a portable display, such as you might find used at a trade show, or when the power supply was portable- as with a UPS or a generator.

Using the extension cord to connect between two fixed points is using the cord in place of a permanent wiring method. To be legal, either the inlet or the power supply has to move around.

The key here in this thread by the OP was a referrence from the AHJ in WA state, with regards to the cord, not the inlet.

There are plenty of legitimate products around that have 'inlets.' Most job-site 'spiders' have one. Manual transfer switches have them. Even the computer monitor on your desk has one.

Anything can be misused. One need not make the case that ALL extension cords are misused in ALL circumstances- just that THIS is such a case. Ditto for "all" inlets, etc. Hence my comment that the best chef can make a bad cake with the finest ingredients.

I understand your examples clearly. No argument.
All examples still use a cord to energize right?

No where can I assert Code regards to specific use of an INLET does it cite "for use with portable movable power source only to be legal"

Does it? 406.6(D) doesn't attribute any reference to your bias, only that it shall only be energized by a cord connection.
Cords are allowable to be energized from a receptacle outlet of the premise wiring 400.7(B) without restriction to where the extended power is provided as to specifics.

Code can be interpeted in as many ways as you want to fit it. Your claim is an INLET SHALL ONLY be energized by a portable source is not specifically cited in how an INLET shall be energized.

I suppose your argument is a strong as ours, either way, we can offer claim to support. Where is your specific citation of how the INLET can only be energized from portable means, not just a "shall also", but specific to ONLY?

 

[al hildenbrand]

2008 NEC
Chapter 2 Wiring and Protection
Article 210 Branch Circuits
III. Required Outlets
210.50 General.
Receptacle outlets shall be installed as specified in 210.52 through 210.63.

210.50(B) is not part of the specifications of the opening sentence.

210.50(B) doesn't say where the receptacle outlet has to be.

 

[al hildenbrand]

So you are saying it serves no purpose?

Hardly, it says a receptacle outlet shall be install where cords with attachment plugs are used.

But that's all it says. There is no information specifying where. That is in the rest of the "Required Outlets" - "Receptacle Outlets" set of rules.

 

[charlie b]

90.1(c) states the NEC is not for untrained individuals. . . . That being said is it safe to assume this product should not be installed by "untrained persons" i.e., unlicensed individuals?

You are misreading that article. What it says is that the code is not an instruction manual for untrained persons. It says nothing about whether an untrained person should, or should not, attempt to install electrical equipment.

 

[iwire]

You are misreading that article. What it says is that the code is not an instruction manual for untrained persons. It says nothing about whether an untrained person should, or should not, attempt to install electrical equipment.

I agree, the issue of qualifications are handled by each local area.

 

[charlie b]

No, it's a controller. Since no one has responded to my comments to that regard, everyone must be in agreement.

I?ll respond by disagreeing.

(1) The PowerBridge kit as a whole is a controller: "A device or group of devices that serves to govern, in some predetermined manner, the electric power delivered to the apparatus to which it is connected."

This product has no influence on the power delivered to the TV set. It alters the power in no way whatsoever. It controls nothing, it changes nothing, it governs nothing. Nice try.

 

[LarryFine]

Larry that is simple not true.

How would you get the output of, say, a power filter that has only receptacles into a code-compliant, in-wall wiring method?

 

[LarryFine]

It plugs into the existing power wired outlet, has a receptacle on the other end to plug the TV into. It's an extension or substitute for fixed wired receptacle?

To me, it's a substitute if you plug it directly into a receptacle.

But then, the same can be said of almost all extension cords.

 

[LarryFine]

... if there is a surge protector/UPS, the extra benefit is applied from the same premise circuit and thus preventing the transmission of noise.

To me, not plugging the inlet's cord into such a device renders the install a substitution for premises wiring.

 

[LarryFine]

Okay, simple explanation of my opinion:

The Bridge and similar parts packages are merely extension cords that use approved in-wall components for the section that is in the wall (ceiling, etc.)

It is not an appliance (as it uses no power) and it's not a controller (being completely passive). It is for bringing conditioned power to a TV receptacle.

It's not a substitute, because I have not seen another way of accomplishing the same thing. There's no excuse for plugging it directly into a receptacle.

 

[iwire]

It's not a substitute, because I have not seen another way of accomplishing the same thing.

Then I guess you have not seen much or have much less imagination then I have given you credit for.

And when did something being difficult start meaning we can ignore the rules?

If I can't fish an MC cable into a space can I reach for zip cord instead because the MC cable will not fit where I need it to go?

 

[mivey]

Okay, simple explanation of my opinion:

The Bridge and similar parts packages are merely extension cords that use approved in-wall components for the section that is in the wall (ceiling, etc.)

It is not an appliance (as it uses no power) and it's not a controller (being completely passive). It is for bringing conditioned power to a TV receptacle.

It's not a substitute, because I have not seen another way of accomplishing the same thing. There's no excuse for plugging it directly into a receptacle.

Does the ups HAVE to be remote? What about a mounting bracket for it? Or cut in a wall niche to recess it.

 

[LarryFine]

Then I guess you have not seen much or have much less imagination then I have given you credit for.

Aww. Sorry to disappoint you.

And when did something being difficult start meaning we can ignore the rules?

Have any alternate ideas?

If I can't fish an MC cable into a space can I reach for zip cord instead because the MC cable will not fit where I need it to go?

I don't agree with the analogy.

What would your solution be?

 

[LarryFine]

Does the ups HAVE to be remote? What about a mounting bracket for it? Or cut in a wall niche to recess it.

Behind the TV? How would the rest of the system get on the same power cleaner?