kitchen hood

[Riograndeelectric]

What that article within 422 is doing is granting permission to use a plug and cord connection. There are five requirements, one of which is the dedicated circuit. But the article is not requiring plug and cord connections. So we can infer that hard wiring is allowable. That will bring us to the question of which type of circuit can be used for the hard wire connection. I can only think of three rules that say that a particular type of circuit cannot have any other outlets. One is the SABC, and that is the one under discussion. (The other two are the bathroom receptacle circuit and the laundry circuit, but there may be others I have missed). My conclusion is that you can power the range hood via a hard wired connection on any circuit other than those three. I would be inclined to use the kitchen light circuit, since it is close by, and since it is likely to be lightly loaded.

Thank you Charle. I aprecciate your input as well as the froum members input

I would agree that the hood can be hard wired form any circuit other than the SABC,Bathroom, Laundry and possibly the furnace and or boiler circuit.

 

[texie]

It just cant be on with any of the SABC's.... and no, it doesnt have to be dedicated, I think you are lacking where and what a SABC is... again... read 210.52(B)(1) and (2), its pretty straight forward what they want.

The appliance garage raises an interesting issue. Could it not be argued that it is still a counter top recep? Also, the very items used in an appliance garage are the things that the NEC had in mind when requiring a SABC. Maybe we need a poll on this.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Mike I have to go with Stickboy on this. It is not compliant. Sorry I missed all of page 2-- That's 20 posts on my end

 

[stickboy1375]

The appliance garage raises an interesting issue. Could it not be argued that it is still a counter top recep? Also, the very items used in an appliance garage are the things that the NEC had in mind when requiring a SABC. Maybe we need a poll on this.

I thinks its crazy that they restrict it... common sense went out the window on this one.

 

[charlie b]

The appliance garage raises an interesting issue. Could it not be argued that it is still a counter top recep?

It is an interesting question. And I think the argument in favor of one side or the other is going to be a bit convoluted. Here is my version, taking the "no" side of the issue.

Is it a receptacle? Yes. Does it serve the countertop? Yes. Is it one of the receptacles required by 210.52(C)? No, since (C)(5) explicitly excludes it. Then, when we read the "no other outlets" statement, the things that can have no other outlets are the circuits described in 210.52(B)(1). But that article says that the SABC are for two things: the general provision stuff in 210.52(A) and the countertop stuff in 210.52(C). Therefore, since the appliance garage receptacle is not counted amongst the countertop stuff, it can't go on an SABC.

Q.E.D.

 

[charlie b]

I thinks its crazy that they restrict it... common sense went out the window on this one.

Perhaps not. I think the idea is that we want the homeowner to have enough receptacles to be able to use the stuff that they would store on, or at least operate on, the countertop. Plus, we want there to be enough capacity to run a number of appliances at the same time. So the toaster should not have to compete with the porch light for the available juice. Also, since the receptacle within the appliance garage is not likely to be used for any appliance that is not being stored in the garage, it does not help the homeowner make use of the countertop space.

 

[stickboy1375]

Perhaps not. I think the idea is that we want the homeowner to have enough receptacles to be able to use the stuff that they would store on, or at least operate on, the countertop. Plus, we want there to be enough capacity to run a number of appliances at the same time. So the toaster should not have to compete with the porch light for the available juice. Also, since the receptacle within the appliance garage is not likely to be used for any appliance that is not being stored in the garage, it does not help the homeowner make use of the countertop space.

Charlie, here is my take on it, whether the appliance garage is existing or not, the same appliances are still in use, so the load does not change. IMO, its just silly to not allow it.

So you either keep the appliances hidden or in view, but im betting you use the same appliances regardless...

 

[texie]

Also, since the receptacle within the appliance garage is not likely to be used for any appliance that is not being stored in the garage, it does not help the homeowner make use of the countertop space.

I think this where I have a rub with not requiring (allowing?) the receps in the appliance garage to be on the SABC. I see MANY people specifically leave the appliances plugged in to the recep in the garage and simply drag them out to use them and then push 'em back when done.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have never seen anyone get turned down for outlets in the appliance garage being on the SABC. They may not count for the recep. outlets required ( I think they should) but they definitely serve the counter.

 

[charlie b]

I see MANY people specifically leave the appliances plugged in to the recep in the garage and simply drag them out to use them and then push 'em back when done.

I have never seen anyone get turned down for outlets in the appliance garage being on the SABC. They may not count for the recep. outlets required ( I think they should) but they definitely serve the counter.

I have no argument with this point of view; indeed I agree that this is not a safety issue or an operational concern. But in order to prevent Charlie's Rule from being thrown back at me, I merely state my belief that the words, as written, do not allow it. :happysad:

 

[texie]

I have no argument with this point of view; indeed I agree that this is not a safety issue or an operational concern. But in order to prevent Charlie's Rule from being thrown back at me, I merely state my belief that the words, as written, do not allow it. :happysad:

I think you may be correct from a technical wording standpoint. Although I'm not a resi expert, I think all the AHJ's around here require the recep(s) in an appliance garage to be on the SABC as they treat it as regular counter space. Sounds like a code clarification is in order in this area.

Where are the inspectors when we need them to chime in?

 

[jxofaltrds]

I put an outlet on (in) an island for a receptacle as required per code. That outlet is in a cabinet and the receptacle just 'happens' to face out.

So a receptacle facing 'in' a cabinet is not a SABC and facing out is?

 

[jxofaltrds]

It is an interesting question. And I think the argument in favor of one side or the other is going to be a bit convoluted. Here is my version, taking the "no" side of the issue.

Is it a receptacle? Yes. Does it serve the countertop? Yes. Is it one of the receptacles required by 210.52(C)? No, since (C)(5) explicitly excludes it. Then, when we read the "no other outlets" statement, the things that can have no other outlets are the circuits described in 210.52(B)(1). But that article says that the SABC are for two things: the general provision stuff in 210.52(A) and the countertop stuff in 210.52(C). Therefore, since the appliance garage receptacle is not counted amongst the countertop stuff, it can't go on an SABC.

Q.E.D.

I say that it does not serve the counter. Can but does not.

So then GFCI protection is not required for this?

 

[jxofaltrds]

It just cant be on with any of the SABC's.... and no, it doesnt have to be dedicated, I think you are lacking where and what a SABC is... again... read 210.52(B)(1) and (2), its pretty straight forward what they want.

So as an inspector you would take this stance? Period? Or would you discuss this with the EC?

If it were straight forward there would be no debate!

 

[texie]

I say that it does not serve the counter. Can but does not.

So then GFCI protection is not required for this?

Oh, this is going to get complicated. So if the appliance garage recep is not on the SABC and not within 6' of the sink no GFCI? I can't imagine selling this to the AHJ, or as I said earlier, that you could even sell the idea that the recep in the appliance garage is not part the the counter top SABC.

 

[John120/240]

The recptacle in the appliance garage would be GFCI protected & on the SABC. We would wire

for two SABC, sometimes three SABC depending on kitchen counter layout. All countertop

recptacles are GFCI protected including island & penusila. That is how it is done in this

neighbrhood.

 

[kwired]

A microwave that is not also a range hood and is located "In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit" and is cord an plug connected will be connected to a SABC, even if a dedicated circuit, code defines this as a SABC.

210.52 is titled Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.
210.52(B)(1) is about "receptacle" outlets. Anything not supplied through a receptacle outlet is not included in 210.52(B)(1).
We also have Infinity's mention of 422.16(B)(4) and the requirement if the hood is cord and plug supplied that it must be on an individual branch circuit. This individual circuit is still a SABC. You could have this and one more SABC and meet your minimum of two required SABC's. That second circuit could also supply all the receptacles in the dining room, pantry, or other similar areas and still be code compliant.

I take back some of what I said, a receptacle inside a cabinet is not consided a receptacle that 210.52 applies to (see first few sentences of 210.52), and 210.52(B)(1) says the small appliance circuits includes receptacles in kitchen, dining, pantry... that are required to be there according to 210.52(A), as well as the receptacles serving counter tops according to 210.52(C), and receptacles for refrigeration equipment. Any appliance located in a cabinet would not be allowed on a SABC. (The appliance garage pushes this one at times, is it a cabinet or a counter top - they are usually kind of both).

 

[jxofaltrds]

(C) Dwelling Units.
(1) Small-Appliance Branch Circuits. In addition to the
number of branch circuits required by other parts of this
section, two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits
shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by
210.52(B).

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop
outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.

(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.


The receptacles outlets required by 210.52(B) must be supplied by at least two 20 AMP circuits per 210.11(C)(1). Those two or more circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) can not have other outlets.

Nothing prohibits me from adding SABCs. If not what does this mean:

(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed
in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be
supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits,
either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply
receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms
specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch
circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the
kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small appliance
branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.

 

[kwired]

I put an outlet on (in) an island for a receptacle as required per code. That outlet is in a cabinet and the receptacle just 'happens' to face out.

So a receptacle facing 'in' a cabinet is not a SABC and facing out is?

One of them is serving the countertop, the other is not. Now put one on side of that cabinet but near the floor instead of within 6 inches of the countertop so that it is not technically serving the countertop. Is it allowed on SABC? Is it in a space where 210.52(A) would require a receptacle? This is not a easy call IMO based on wording in any portion of 210.52.

(C) Dwelling Units.
(1) Small-Appliance Branch Circuits. In addition to the
number of branch circuits required by other parts of this
section, two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits
shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by
210.52(B).

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop
outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.

(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.


The receptacles outlets required by 210.52(B) must be supplied by at least two 20 AMP circuits per 210.11(C)(1). Those two or more circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) can not have other outlets.

Nothing prohibits me from adding SABCs. If not what does this mean:

(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed
in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be
supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits,
either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply
receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms
specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch
circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the
kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small appliance
branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.

I think it means two small appliance branch circuits must supply receptacles that serve kitchen countertops. They can also have any of the other receptacles permitted on SABC on the same circuit, but at least two circuits must serve kitchen counter receptacles. You can have unlimited number of SABC's but can have no less than 2 serving minumum of two different countertop receptacles.

Sorry to sound repetetive but hopefully made my point - there is a lot of two's there may as well repeat some of it also.

 

[renosteinke]

Oh, what a tangled web we weave ..... especially when the code panel crosses over into design issues!

OK, as I see it ....
An "SABC" is defined as a 20 amp circuit serving the required receptacles, as well as receptacles serving the counters. If a receptacle is not a required one, and it does not serve the counter ... it need not be on an SABC. (Why do you think they put in the 'refrigerator exception?)

Place a receptacle on the wall, more than 20" high, and not only need it not be on an SABC - it is forbidden to have it on one. (again, look to the 'clock exception') We can also have a lively discussion about receptacles under the counter, but that's for another thread.

My point is that a range hood is too high to plug into an SABC, and we're not allowed 'any other outlets' on an SABC.

Regarding cords and range hoods .... Most hoods I've seen do not come with cords. While I personally have no issues with a properly attached cord, I understand the position that such hoods are intended for hard-wiring only. An inspector that insisted on your adding a cord to such a hood is exceeding his authority, and maybe asking you to violate the 'listing and labeling.'

If you're going to run a dedicated circuit, a 20-amp circuit for a 1-amp fan is a code violation. You can't go over 15. I'd even use a 5-amp breaker. That's for a hard-wired hood. Code has already made the decisions for us regarding cord-connected hoods.

Talk about appliance garages does introduce a few other complications, and IMO deserves its' own thread. Simply put, once there's a garage in place, the remaining 'counter' might not be deep enough to officially count as a 'counter' requiring receptacles ... and, thus, cannot be served by an SABC.