20 Amp (12 wire) in dining rooms?

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iMuse97

iMuse97

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justin59 said:
I think we're heading towards cleaner more so than less, especially since we are relying so heavily on technology in every day life. soon we'll be plugging in our work trucks every night and getting the power from the sun and wind. IMO
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I suppose when the sun is gone and the wind has died down on those foggy days, we won't have to go to work at all the next day... b/c the truck won't charge.
 
M

morgan01

Member
Hi,

Hi,

I think we in the direction of less than one, especially in everyday life when we learned a lot about the technology are. We soon lost his job every night to the wind and solar energy will connect. IMO
 
K

kid993

Member
weepster said:
the liscensed guy I worked with told me all dining rooms must be 12 wire, or 20 amps. I looked it up in the book, because that's what I like to do, and 210.52 B.1.? or so references if the room comes off the small appliance branch circuit it shall be 20 amp, but what if the room has a dedicated circuit? Thank you
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The 2005 NEC clears this up. 210.52[1] states that the two 20A SA branch circuits "shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52[A]"
 
iwire

iwire

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kid993 said:
The 2005 NEC clears this up. 210.52[1] states that the two 20A SA branch circuits "shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52[A]"
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Welcome to the forum, the answer is not as black and white as you are trying to paint it.

receptacle outlets covered by 210.52[A]
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What about outlets in addition to those covered by 210.52(A)?
 
K

kid993

Member
iwire said:
Welcome to the forum, the answer is not as black and white as you are trying to paint it.



What about outlets in addition to those covered by 210.52(A)?
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Answer is also simple. Any outlet in dining room other than "wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52[A], all countertop outlets covered by 210.52[C], and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment" are not required to be on 12 wire unless required by specs of whatever youre plugging in
 
iwire

iwire

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kid993 said:
Answer is also simple. Any outlet in dining room other than "wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52[A], all countertop outlets covered by 210.52[C], and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment" are not required to be on 12 wire unless required by specs of whatever youre plugging in
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Again it is not as simple as that your giving the stock answers without any thought. :smile:

Say I place a floor receptacle in the center of the room under the dinning table. Is it required to be supplied by a 20 amp circuit?

If yes what section requires it, floor receptacles more then 18" away from a wall are specifically not covered by 210.52.
 
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charlie b

charlie b

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Lockport, IL
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iwire said:
Say I place a floor receptacle in the center of the room under the dinning table. Is it required to be supplied by a 20 amp circuit?
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Great example, Bob, and a very interesting question. Here's another example: put a receptacle 6 feet above the DR floor, to serve a plasma TV. Does that require a 20 amp circuit, and would that circuit be classified as a "small appliance circuit"? I suppose that depends on the size of the TV. :wink:

(Did you notice that I avoided giving my opinon on the answer to your question? :cool:)
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

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Location
Tampa Florida
The problem is how will the user know that an extra wall outlet is not for SA use ?
210.52 b 1 was intended to cover this but leaves Bob's center of floor receptacle alone and depending on how you read this he could not put it on the SA..
NEC is written in legal terms. To become an electrical contractor they should require a law degree as you will need it.
 
W

weepster

Member
So there is no 'in summary'. Also what if my DR where 2 or 3 rooms away from my kitchen, should I then be snaking wire all over the place to make sure it is on the SABC? I don't think this is a cut and dry article, to much room for interpretation.
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Lockport, IL
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Nothing says that you must share circuits in the kitchen and dining room. You need a minimum of 2 circuits to serve kitchen counters. If the DR were some distance away, then serve it's wall receptacles with one or more completely separate circuits. The circuits you use for this purpose are also SA circuits. So if you use 2 in the kitchen, 2 in the DR, and 1 in the pantry, you have a total of 5 SA circuits.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
This all about cost. If your kitchen was used like ours you would wish you ran 12-3 to each outlet and split the tab. we use 4 crock pots and 2 mr coffees every saturday night. Thankfully they make 40 amp breakers LOL. Never try to outguess the owners use. We burn on average $3 per hour every saturday night , but only for 6 hours.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
peter d said:
Even at our electric rates here in southern New England that's nearly 19kw of demand at .16/kw/hr. What the heck are you doing?
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About same here 15 cents per kw. We usually have about 70 to 80 people at our parties and run 15 ton of AC along with hot tub and DJ. Could care less about $20 bucks , food and soda $100 or more, all about having fun.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

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Georgia
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Former Child
Jim W in Tampa said:
About same here 15 cents per kw. We usually have about 70 to 80 people at our parties and run 15 ton of AC along with hot tub and DJ. Could care less about $20 bucks , food and soda $100 or more, all about having fun.
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dj, hot tub, and air conditioning, and FOOD?

make that 71 to 81 next weekend. :smile:
 
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