2020 NEC

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
How is sitting on a computer complaining to everyone about the NEC doing your part? Have you contacted the nec?

I don't see many others speaking up. And thats where the problem rests. Silence is consent.

Contacting the NFPA does nothing. If you look at the proposals being accepted they typically don't come from garden variety electricians or individuals. Arrogance blinds.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
I don't know what I will do.


Speak up. You have a VERY extensive resume. That weight or the folks on your side should not go to waste. Learn how to challenge, question, fight and the like.

I don't know about you, but I would think the memories of touching/reading you're very first code book compared to the bloated blimp of today would trigger some emotions of anger and loss.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
The question is, why is no one fighting?


I do my part of picking apart the flaws in the current code, and the manufacturer influence, to which there are many.


Perhaps we need a sit in at the NFPA?
Have you submitted PIs or PCs to fix the code? It is not difficult, and I have successfully made a number of changes to the code.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
If you have any possible proof, submit it to the states attorney. I am totally done with this type of BS!


At one point you were on board with all the accusations of bribery being made against the NFPA.

Now, all of sudden, it is outrageous to even insinuate such.

Perhaps this all we need to know.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrical Monke
I’m going to take Don at his word.

As for the NEC being free (the physical book) or at a highly reduced cost, that isn’t something I can support. As far as I know it’s still free to view online?

There was a comment about a lot of it being common sense, but sense isn’t that common.

The NEC has value for me, and I imagine it costs a lot of money to put it together. While the majority of my work is repetitive, I’m always doing some oddball job I’m not familiar with the requirements on. Especially hazardous locations. And even in the work I do repeatedly there are things that i forget the exact wording on and refer back to the code. Sometimes I run across a situation in my every day type work that I’m uncertain on and I’ll lookup the requirements. For me, I strive for a 100% code compliant installation. I don’t talk about this here much, but we’ve been involved in several lawsuits and insurance investigations, and these people will look for anything out of compliance to pin on you. It’s just statistics that the number of projects im involved with that I’m more likely to have this happen. I’ve seen forensic engineers disassemble my work and cart it off to a laboratory. That’s not the time to start questioning if you did it right. Anyway, I’m wandering off subject I think but the point is that the code is there for your protection as well.

Now as for the expanded AFCI requirements we’ve discussed, I’m fully in agreement that if the evidence doesn’t support it, we shouldn’t be on board with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
I’m going to take Don at his word.

As for the NEC being free (the physical book) or at a highly reduced cost, that isn’t something I can support. As far as I know it’s still free to view online?


So how was the NEC capable of being a fraction of the cost 60 years ago? And so much more on point?



The NEC has value for me, and I imagine it costs a lot of money to put it together. While the majority of my work is repetitive, I’m always doing some oddball job I’m not familiar with the requirements on. Especially hazardous locations. And even in the work I do repeatedly there are things that i forget the exact wording on and refer back to the code. Sometimes I run across a situation in my every day type work that I’m uncertain on and I’ll lookup the requirements. For me, I strive for a 100% code compliant installation. I don’t talk about this here much, but we’ve been involved in several lawsuits and insurance investigations, and these people will look for anything out of compliance to pin on you. It’s just statistics that the number of projects im involved with that I’m more likely to have this happen. I’ve seen forensic engineers disassemble my work and cart it off to a laboratory. That’s not the time to start questioning if you did it right. Anyway, I’m wandering off subject I think but the point is that the code is there for your protection as well.

I can design a power system which is literally capable of taking lives while presenting a significant risk for combustion and still be 100% code compliant, where as on the flip side I can design exceptionally safe, dependable power system while violating two dozen code articles.

The root of the problem besides manufacturer influence is the code is devoid of having any basis in electrical theory rather driven by litigation based rules. Some which end up being gross over kill others dangerously inadequate.

Now as for the expanded AFCI requirements we’ve discussed, I’m fully in agreement that if the evidence doesn’t support it, we shouldn’t be on board with it.

How about the CMPs simply put down their ego and define effective ground fault current path?

If the evidence of short circuit fires is so profound, just make a table restricting the run length of final circuits to a few hundred feet.

The entire science, art and practice of protecting life and property can be condensed to several paragraphs with a few tables complimenting them.

The rest is political none-sense.
 

SSDriver

Senior Member
Location
California
Occupation
Electrician
@don_resqcapt19

A lot of the changes being made recently make no sense to an electrician in the field who actually works on stuff and sees how ineffective it is at a HUGE cost. However the panel members keep expanding these codes that offer only gains to the manufactures. What are we supposed to think when 20+ years of AFCI's show no proof of increased safety yet there mandated use is expanded. Places/states who don't use them have the same safety/fire statistics as states that have to pay a fortune for these devices, and the electrician has to come out of pocket to trouble shoot these crap products. We are past the point of waiting for the technology to actually work.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
there exists, at least to my knowledge, no statistical accountability of who seats cmp's. IE> insurance reps, manufacturing reps, inspection agencies, housing agencies , etc. vs. joe bag-o' wirenuts sparky

there also exists (again, i'd love to be corrected) no info on what is forwarded, or what is passed into code among these factions

~RJ~
 
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