Am I allowed to post here?

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iwire said:
I would like to remind you that you that this is an entirly free site paid for entirly by the owner ...... Mike Holt.
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Now this is an interesting development. Bob, may I ask you what you have been doing with the $25 a month I have been sending you for the past three years?:mad:























:grin:
 
zog said:
What if I have a question on a NEC or installation issue but I am not doing the work? Maybe just looking for an answer outside my area of expertise to assist a customer with a NEC interpretation?
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I understand where you are coming from. It seems like some questions are of the DIY/engineering type.

I think it is good for engineers to understand electrical and I think it is good for electricians to understand engineering.

If a person is in the electric industry and wants to probe something they have been exposed to at work, then post the job-related question and get an answer. Engineering and electrical work cross paths all the time so it is conceivable that either discipline could ask a question pertaining to the other discipline.

Just don't post a DIY question.

I will respectfully disagree with the mods that electricians can't be of the DIY class. I do see the issue with how in the world you would identify that. We see electricians on this site getting in over their head. The danger illustrated in the quotes in Charlie's #20 could easily apply to an electrician who knows just enough to be dangerous. I will say, when it is obvious, that our members often tell such a person to seek advice from someone with more experience.

As a professional (electrician or engineer), I am expecting that poster to know when they are reaching beyond their limits. We can't necessarily expect the same from a homeowner.

I work in both arenas so I am not choosing sides, but I can see where an electrician might get a "free pass" here where an engineer would not. But, this site is mainly for electricians. Those are the owner's rules. So be it.
 
iwire said:
I hear you, and I can not disagree about the mixed message you got. I am not sure why that particular post was approved from the start. Normally you would have never seen it.

All I can tell you is we (the mods) do try to do our best but sometimes things slip by. :)
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Sorry for interrupting.

I'm astuned. How do you do that? Do you really pre-read every post before it appears online???

If one of my posts doesnt pass this test, how would I know?

Thankfully Im an EE and all my posts were related to my work. I didnt know about the DiY deal.

The mods are doing a great job!! I must say.
 
iwire said:
I know your both, I was just joking about the wording but I guess it was only funny to me. :)
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It was funny. I even chuckled when I read my post again. I swear it sounded different in my head. Must be the echo.:grin:
 
Mayimbe said:
Sorry for interrupting.

I'm astuned. How do you do that? Do you really pre-read every post before it appears online???
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All posts from new members are manually approved by a moderator before they show up for all to see.


If one of my posts doesnt pass this test, how would I know?
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If someone asks a DIY question we typically approve the post then close the thread with an explanation why its been closed. This approval process is also why you never see advertising. Most of the time the posts we do not approve are just marking people trying to use the forum to see anything and everything.
 
zog said:
I am not complaning, just pointing out what the forum rules say. I think I give more than I get out of this forum.




Oh, the "other" forum rules, didn't see that one.

What if I have a question on a NEC or installation issue but I am not doing the work? Maybe just looking for an answer outside my area of expertise to assist a customer with a NEC interpretation?
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Zog you have helped so many people on this site as have many others if you have a question and don't feel that it will get past the mods I'm sure that you could PM several people on this site and they would be more than happy to assist you if they can. I for one would help if if I can.
 
mivey said:
Just curious, do you have stats on how many posts get rejected?
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Most, if not all moderator actions are tracked. I am not sure how to access it, George or Charlie might.

I can tell your there are several hundred banned members that where banned immediately because there first post was advertising. Many of those members where likely software 'bots'.
 
Mayimbe said:
I'm astuned. How do you do that? Do you really pre-read every post before it appears online???

If one of my posts doesnt pass this test, how would I know?
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You won't even know it happens, your account is automaticly transered to a different forum (Wont mention any names) where your unprofessional and DIY questions/comments are welcomed with open arms. :)

No really, the moderators do a great job keeping things on track here.
 
SEO said:
Zog you have helped so many people on this site as have many others if you have a question and don't feel that it will get past the mods I'm sure that you could PM several people on this site and they would be more than happy to assist you if they can. I for one would help if if I can.
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I have had some questions like that and they have been answered right away, the last one was by a moderator in fact. Guess they all know by now if I wired my own house the fire would make the 9:00 news, I stick to my high voltage stuff and call a real electrician when I need one at home, last time he even laughed at by IBEW sticker in my window.
 
zog said:
...I know there are many members here, that answer some of the most complex questions that are not employed as electricians, so is it a one way street?
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Yes.

But I wire says its fair. charlie b says the moderators have spoken. Oh yeah, and roger says there is no DIY engineering on this site.

However I would not have the stomach to be a moderator, so I can only applaud their efforts.

cf
 
Thanks to the moderators for their patience on this. I know its a free forum, and I don't usually look a gift horse in the mouth.

But it does seem like a double standard. Electricians can ask engineering questions, but not the other way around? Regarding Charlie's boilerplate response, it seems like engineers would know the right questions to ask. And it seems like they would be very aware of the dangers involved in doing their own work. And there are many engineers actually do hands on work out in the field. There aren't any laws that say we have to be chained to a desk in front of a computer.

Anyhow, I'll accept the rules however they are written.

But one final questions: What about engineers that used to be electricians? There are some of us out there. I assume we are free to ask away? Not that I have any immediate plans to.

Steve
 
raider1 said:
Actually the Forum rules prohibit this. This Forum is intended to assist professional electricians, inspectors, engineers, and other members of the electrical industry in the performance of their job-related tasks. However, if you are not an electrician or an electrical contractor, then we are not permitted to help you perform your own electrical installation work.

Chris
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So conversly electricians should not be performing design or engineering work and should not ask for help in those areas?
 
steve66 said:
But it does seem like a double standard. Electricians can ask engineering questions, but not the other way around?
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I'll answer your question with a question: Do you have a better idea?

I know that sounds kind of harsh, and I do not intend it that way. It's just that essentially, moderators have to come to some sort of consensus about what flies and what doesn't, and this is a fairly fair, easy to remember, easy to apply, safe standard.

I'm sure anyone with experience selling electrical services in the field has come across an "electrical engineer" of one stripe or another in their time that has done work in their own home that is at minimum not code compliant, and at worst a serious hazard. I think any of us on the forum that have been here for any length of time have seen borderline calls that slipped through, that we have to suspect that something is going to be done unsafe.

Conversely, I do not hear a whole lot of stories about electricians engineering their own work and it resulting in a hazard revealed later to an engineer.

In general, DIY electrical installation is something that is easier to spot, easier to stop and much more prevalent than people wandering in off the street just wanting to design their own installation. Even if DIY engineering caught on, I would like to think that these DIY engineers would hand their one-lines on cocktail napkins over to electricians to install, who would catch the engineering mistakes. :)
 
steve66 said:
But one final questions: What about engineers that used to be electricians? There are some of us out there. I assume we are free to ask away?
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That could go either way. Generally, I would allow a "how to" question from a person who is a retired electrician. A person who once was an electrician, but has some other occupation at present, might be allowed to ask "how to questions." I would have to see the circumstance arise, before I could make a judgment.

For what it's worth, I have an electrician's licence. I can't use it at present, even if some opportunity arose, because I allowed it to lapse (couldn't get the 16 hours of in-class training required by my state). So I should not be allowed to ask any "how to" questions about electrical installations. "How to" questions on calculations and such matters are fair game, however. :cool:
 
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