Cheaper way to install services to fulfill outside safety switch

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jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
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licensed journeyman electrician
Since the 2020 NEC went into effect I've been installing meter/main sockets with 4-wire feeders going to the panel. Part of the changes required is the GEC from the water meter now needs to go outside. Sometimes this is relatively simple, other times the water meter is on the other side of a finished basement.

Is there a cheaper way to have a switch outside without it being the first overcurrent device? I'm looking for meter sockets with a switch built in rather than a meter socket and a separate safety switch.
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
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licensed journeyman electrician
MrNiceberg said:
Is this what you’re looking for here? This company has some cool stuff.

https://www.milbankworks.com/products/metering/meter-mains-compliant-with-nec-2020


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Click to expand...

No, I'm trying to avoid having the service disconnect outside be the main breaker. I want the main breaker inside on the circuit panel.

I don't mind doing the meter main on a new service on new construction. But when I'm just replacing the service or just parts of it I'd like to just have a shutoff switch on the side of the meter.
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
I do like the idea of having a meter/main that also has spaces for other circuits, such as for a car charger or well pump or something.

metermain.jpg
 
M

MrNiceberg

Member
Location
Minnesota
Ah my apologies. I know what you mean now. Haven’t seen anything like that…an all in one. I can definitely see how that would be a pain to have to get that water bond where it needs to go. If you come across something, be sure to pass it along!


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jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
ptonsparky said:
The switch can be labeled per 230.85(3)


eta: If it’s not the service equipment, it does not need the GEC taken to it, nor do you need 4 wire. IMO.

We are not on the 20 so I haven’t had to test that theory.
Click to expand...

RE: eta

That's my point. If the main breaker is on the meter socket outside, that's where the GEC has to go. I'm looking for a solution where the meter has a safety switch for firefighters, but it's not a main breaker.

But I also don't want to have the service entrance conductors go to the meter, then to a separate safety switch then inside to the main breaker/panel. That wouldn't save any money.
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
And it's not just money, it's time. My clientele is all over the place. I have a few contractors that need me to keep their jobs going, I have homeowners that need something fixed fast, and I have homeowners that are thinking of maybe having something new installed. I can push off some of that last category, but I like to keep them all going because I'm never not busy.
 
C

Charged

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
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Electrical Designer
Knoxbox makes an emergency disconnect switch. If physically possible to replace the main with a shunt trip main breaker you could wire it to the Knox safety disconnect. I think the model is 4500, I have done this set up for ev installations in a city where the local fire department wanted a “emergency shut off”
 
infinity

infinity

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jaylectricity said:
Since the 2020 NEC went into effect I've been installing meter/main sockets with 4-wire feeders going to the panel. Part of the changes required is the GEC from the water meter now needs to go outside. Sometimes this is relatively simple, other times the water meter is on the other side of a finished basement.

Is there a cheaper way to have a switch outside without it being the first overcurrent device? I'm looking for meter sockets with a switch built in rather than a meter socket and a separate safety switch.
Click to expand...
Just wondering even if you put the emergency disconnect on the outside isn't the service disconnect on the other side of the wall on the inside? How does this solve your finished basement issue?
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

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Location
Massachusetts
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licensed journeyman electrician
electrofelon said:
230.85(3) appears to allow a circuit breaker for an emergency disconnect that is on the supply side of the service disconnect. I don't see why a meter main would not be compliant be with the language.
Click to expand...
Again, I'm not having a problem with a meter/main being the disconnect. Nobody is saying that. It just costs more for both the meter socket and the downstream wiring.
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
infinity said:
Just wondering even if you put the emergency disconnect on the outside isn't the service disconnect on the other side of the wall on the inside? How does this solve your finished basement issue?
Click to expand...

It won't if I have to upgrade the GEC, but if I'm just replacing an old beat-up service I can just keep the GEC as is.
 
W

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
jaylectricity said:
Again, I'm not having a problem with a meter/main being the disconnect. Nobody is saying that. It just costs more for both the meter socket and the downstream wiring.
Click to expand...

I'm having trouble understanding what you are asking.

If the meter/main is the service disconnect and the emergency disconnect, then you need a 4 wire feed to the inside panel and need to bring the GEC to the meter main. The is exactly the issue you are saying you want to avoid.

If the meter/main box is used as the emergency disconnect and labeled as described in post 11, then the interior panel remains the service disconnect. You run a 3 wire feeder from the meter/main and land the GEC at the interior panel.

-Jon
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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Location
NC & IN
It does not seem to difficult to me to bring the GEC to the outside meter main / disco. Seems pretty easy. How are you installing it? Conduit? Maybe a stone wall? I could see that chipping , etc...
 
Knuckle Dragger

Knuckle Dragger

Master Electrician Electrical Contractor 01752
Location
Marlborough, Massachusetts USA
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Electrical Contractor
Jay,
In Massachusetts you can install USE cable from the meter emergency disconnect (which can be a standard meter with over current device disconnect and labeled Emergency Disconnect) and as long as it's"adjacent to the meter disconnect".
I hope this makes sense.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
jaylectricity said:
RE: eta

That's my point. If the main breaker is on the meter socket outside, that's where the GEC has to go. I'm looking for a solution where the meter has a safety switch for firefighters, but it's not a main breaker.

But I also don't want to have the service entrance conductors go to the meter, then to a separate safety switch then inside to the main breaker/panel. That wouldn't save any money.
Click to expand...
That is not correct. If you put the label that says:
EMERGENCY DISCONNECT,
NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT
then you are not required to do the service grounding and bonding at the outside location. You do it at the inside service disconnect panel.
 
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