Disagreement With Inspector

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curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
We recently wired an addition to a single family dwelling and the owner wanted several exterior outlets installed for possible future lights in addition to the required outlets. We installed fixtures at required outlet locations (at exterior doors) but installed weatherproof blank covers on the other outlets. A final inspection was called by the homeowner last week and I was notified that the inspector would not accept blank covers and fixtures must be installed at all location. I figured that must have been a misunderstanding so I called the inspector the next morning. Below is a recap of our conversation. Let me know what you think.

Me: Hello inspector. I want to find out what you are requiring for the exterior light boxes at this project

Inspector: If a light box is installed a fixture must be installed and working for final inspection.

Me: These outlets are for possible future lights. They are not required outlets. Light fixtures are installed at the exterior doors. The wires in these boxes are insulated with wire nuts and a listed wet location blank cover is installed.

Inspector: Show me in the code book that you are allowed to install lighting outlets but not install the fixtures.

Me: I can?t

Me: What is the difference between these outlets and installing a circuit and disconnect for possible future central A/C?

Inspector: If a circuit for A/C is installed during rough the A/C unit must be installed for final. If you don?t install the A/C unit the wiring must be removed.

Me: You got to be kidding me! You are telling me that if I don?t install these fixtures I must remove the wiring?

Inspector: Yes, unless you can show me in the code book that you are allowed to install lighting outlets but not install the fixtures.

Me: Fine, these are not lighting outlets, they are junction boxes.

Inspector: Why are they installed?

Me: Because I wanted to.

Inspector: Since these are round lighting boxes you must install fixtures on them.

Me: So there is no legal use for blank covers?

Inspector: Not if there are wires behind them.

End
 
It is his responsibility to provide the violation and code section violated to you...he can't make up requirements.
Go over his head and ask for the chief inspector.
 
Sounds like the inspector has somethings to learn. My first thought is why would he even make this an issue? You've met the requirement for the lighting, just because you installed something for future use doesn't mean that it has to be ever used. What article did this Bozo say that you've violated? Just because you can't give him an Article that says that you can do this, doesn't mean that you can't do it. I agree with Lawelectric, time to go over his head.
 
He sounds like a nut case.His job is to cite violations .Unless he can come up with a number then he is making this up.Yes go over his head.NEC is a permisive code.It is assumed you can do things unless it says you can't.Also point out to him and his chief that the BOX is the outlet not the fixture.Your install is legal.What he most likely does not like is knowing a fixture will be installed later and wont be inspected again.Ask him what he does about ceiling fan blanks.
 
On a brand new home, I recently installed a "future" hot tub circuit and disconnect. Put the disconnect on the brick and left the unlanded wire in the panel. Passed with no problem
 
Re: Disagreement With Inspector

curt swartz said:
Inspector: Show me in the code book that you are allowed to install lighting outlets but not install the fixtures.
Click to expand...

You: Show me in the Code book where it says I'm not allowed to.
 
Tell the inspector that you installed them according to 210.70(A)(2)(b).

This section requires at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet. As Ryan has pointed out many times a light outlet does not have to have a luminaire installed according to the NEC.
Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.
Click to expand...

The definition doesn't require the luminaire to be installed just the box and the wire, and in your case a blank cover. If we look at the definition of outlet we see...
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
Click to expand...

JMHO, Chris
 
Hello Curt, are you sure this inspector wasn't a day late on his April Fools joke?

90.8 Wiring Planning
(A) Future Expansion and Convenience Plans and specifications that provide ample space in raceways, spare raceways, and additional spaces allow for future increases in electric power and communication circuits. Distribution centers located in readily accessible locations provide convenience and safety of operation.
Click to expand...


A graphic from the NECH showing future unused boxes.

Futurewiring.JPG





Even though a box is not specifically mentioned the article section is pretty clear to it's intent of allowing and IMO almost recommending rough ins for future use.



Roger
 
110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work

(A) Unused Openings Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters, cabinets, cutout boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment. Where metallic plugs or plates are used with nonmetallic enclosures, they shall be recessed at least 6 mm ( 1/ 4 in.) from the outer surface of the enclosure.

Until you install "something" it is not a outlet.

Its an unused opening.
 
The box he installed is definitely an outlight as per Art 100, but what makes it a lighting outlet. Who is to say that he may not install a receptacle there in the future.

All in all, the inspector still needs to cite a section to show what the violation is.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
The box he installed is definitely an outlight as per Art 100. . .
Click to expand...
I think you meant to say it is an "outlet," but I disagree.

tonyi said:
The box isn't an "outlet", its just a box.
Click to expand...
I agree. The definition of "outlet" requires that current be taken to supply utilization equipment. With no utilization equipment connected, and with the wires capped, there is no way to take current. Therefore, it is not an "outlet."
 
Re: Disagreement With Inspector

I'd like to jump off subject for a moment and address a specific sentence the inspector said
curt swartz said:
Inspector: If a light box is installed a fixture must be installed and working for final inspection.
Click to expand...
I've been told by the chief electrical inspector in my department that I can't require lights to be working on the final inspection unless I can find a code article that states that they must work.

Any comments

David
 
charlie b said:
Pierre C Belarge said:
The box he installed is definitely an outlight as per Art 100. . .
Click to expand...
I think you meant to say it is an "outlet," but I disagree.

tonyi said:
The box isn't an "outlet", its just a box.
Click to expand...
I agree.
Click to expand...

Interesting Charlie but I can not agree that the definition means what you believe it means.

If I agree with your interpretation no building that has required receptacle or lighting outlets can pass inspection unless each and every required receptacle and lighting outlet has current being drawn from it at the time of inspection.

Perhaps a proposal is needed to fix the definition of outlet from as it is now

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
Click to expand...

to

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current may be taken to supply utilization equipment.
Click to expand...

It's good to be able to read the code using 'Your' rules but the end result has also got to be workable. :)
 
It's not as tricky as that, Bob. I am not addressing whether, at any given moment, say for example the moment the inspector is doing the inspection, a light is turned on or a radio is plugged in, so that current is actually being taken at the moment. My view is as follows:
  • A receptacle is one example of a point at which current is taken from the system.
  • Therefore, a receptacle is a "outlet."
  • A pair of capped-off wires is not a point at which current is, or even can be, taken from the system.
  • Therefore, an "outlet box" (an undefined term, but I hope you will forgive me for using it) that contains capped-off wires is not an "outlet," and will not become an "outlet" until you connect, to the wires, a device capable of taking current from the system.
 
Charlie I think you just gave me a slippery response. :(

To an electrician (the group that the NEC is written for) a pair of capped wires in a box is as much a point to get current from as a receptacle is.

A receptacle needs a second action (plugging something in) before current can be taken to utilization equipment.

A lighting outlet without a fixture is no different than the receptacle, a second action must happen (connect a fixture) before current can be taken.
 
do the approved plans show these boxes for future lighting outlets? if they do I do not know what he is worried about, wiring for the future is not a code violation, he should make a note on his tech card, no fixtures installed at the following locations and move on
 
Bob,

It would also be possible, using appoved methods, to splice onto the wires in the box and extend the circuit without creating an "outlet" at that box. So, capped wires are not a suffcient description.

Adding a luminaire is like installing a receptacle, no current is drawn until another step is performed. Adding a lamp would be the same as inserting a plug.
 
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