peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Good Zinsco Replacements
- Thread starter Ravenvalor
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mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
My bad, just jumped into this thread midway through :lol::ashamed1:
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Do people really think that the UBIZ breakers are no good? I mean, sure they only address part of the hazard. But my feeling is that if I inform a customer of the deal with Zinsco and they choose not to replace their panel and I use a UBIZ breaker for any new circuit then I've done nothing to increase any hazard and should not be held responsible. Granted I would not agree to do extensive work, I'm talking about adding a single solar generally.
- Location
- Massachusetts
We are always and forever responsible for the work we do and the choices we make.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Tell me about it.
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
That's not a meaningful answer to my question though.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
- Location
- Massachusetts
If I install a listed breaker in the correct listed panel and a fire results at that breaker rest assured my employer will be named is the law suit.
Regardless of the ultimate finding this will cost my employer money.
mbrooke
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- United States
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- Technician
As can happen with a Square D QO panel.
In such a case let the customer know of the potential risk and have him sign.
The problem is is that if that bus connection fries, it doesn't matter how good the breaker was, listed or not. If there is any reasonable doubt that your work is responsible (negligence) for any damages and if there is any wiggle room outside of any disclaimer signed by the ho- big problems.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Negligence would have to be proven. And it would have to be proven that my work did it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
It would be civil court and the burden of proof is much lower.
It won't be your battle to fight or have a say in the outcome if you expect your insurance to pay and fight the case.
Even if the judge sees you and realizes you never made a mistake in your life it would still cost money to pay the lawyers involved.
So stay on that high ground of 'Its not my fault' but it will still cost you, or the company you work for money to defend.
mbrooke
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- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Lower, but still has to be proven and that will be awfully hard. What documents conclusively prove that a licensed electrician working on a Zinsco results in a latent danger to life and property? As much as we do not like Zinsco (I don't either), everything I have read thus far parallels internet opinion rather than UL withdrawing its listing or a CPSC recall. Only official documentation or an articulable law can sway a judge's opinion.
Sure there could be attorney fees if the other side has a shark lawyer, but in my eyes the probability of being sued (let alone aggressively) is still low enough to carry on without worry.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Where did anyone say not to 'carry on'?
My point remains, we are always and forever on the hook for whatever we install.
You can try to pick that apart but it is a fact.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Directly, no mention.
I understand where you are coming from though. It is much easier to not get involved in what we know or suspect carries some risk of being a financial burden or a social black eye.
However IMHO in areas where Zinsco is predominant; refusing to serve a customers who have been made aware of the risk on black and white is tossing away good business.
We recommend replacement of FPE panels, Bulldog, Zinsco or similar. If the customer wants us to install replacement parts or breakers, we decline. We recommend panel replacement on any we evaluate to be damaged, obsolete, etc.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Yep. I like to sleep at night (minus my own FPE Stab-Loc, which has never tripped a 2p breaker and was made long before the hoopla, when FPE was reputable).
I'm sure it's just me, but Ive seen more tan CH CH breakers fail spectacularly than anything else. As in fail when touched or hold under extreme faults.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Ok electrical police. :roll::roll:
I just added a breaker to a Pushmatic panel the other day. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
FWIW there is nothing wrong with pushmatic. The buss bar connection is superior to any resi grade panel you can buy today, and unlike Zinsco and FPE there is no evidence that says the breakers fail in the closed state.
Granted some will claim they had a Bulldog that did not trip when shorted, but that is explained by the lack of magnetic trip. Yes it will take longer for a sort circuit to clear, but unlike FPE and Zinsco the breaker will open long before the wire gets hot enough to become dangerous.
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