Ground rod jumper?

[infinity]

That’s exactly how I read that as well . Multiple cee’s available only one of them is required to be connected to the GES , so if theres multiple only one is required to be a part of the GES, you can call/use the other ones as auxiliary grounding electrodes whether they tie to the GES or simply connect to a egc . But if there’s only one present it must be a grinding electrode that is bonded into the building’s GES , that’s how it reads to me

So if there is one CEE which is made by installing 20' of bare #4 in the footing can that be used as the auxiliary electrode and not part of the GES? That would be the same as installing a ground rod electrode as the auxiliary, but since both types would be present and they would be required to be connected to the GES.

 

[Jaybone812]

Agreed that it doesn't. That wasn't my position, that was jaybone812's position and I was asking him to justify it.

...

An interesting point has been raised about that last sentence of 250.52(A)(3) that also effectively exempts 'extra' CEEs from 250.50. In my opinion that sentence and 250.54 act as implicit exceptions to the word 'all' in 250.50, which go alongside the explicit exception in 250.50 that the CEE is exempt if not accessible.

During our prior debate on this topic I was not explaining my interpretation correctly I was not attempting to say the use of a auxiliary ground electrodes is restricted only certain electrodes and if u came off that way It was a mistake. I was not using the correct language or terms when trying to make my point because I was going around in circles so I see how you took it that way .
I was simply trying to say if there’s only one CEE it must tie into the ges . If you wanna call it an auxiliary grounding electrode it can’t be an auxiliary that only connects to the egc . It must be an auxiliary electrode you bond to the GES . If there’s multiple there can be an auxiliary electrodes for equipment connected to an equipment bonding jumper , but one of those multipl cee’s present must be tied into the GES . Thats what I get in regards to using a cee as a auxiliary grounding electrode from 250.50, 250.52(a)(3) and 250.54

 

[infinity]

I think that we know what we want the code words to say but they're just not there. What do you we think of these two scenarios:

1) We all seem to agree that when we create an electrode (like a driving a ground rod) that can be used as an auxiliary electrode and is not required to be connected connect to the GES.

2) Building has epoxy coated rebar so we can create a CEE by laying 20' of bare #4 in a footing that can be used as an auxillary electrode and is not required to be connected to the GES.

 

[Jaybone812]

I think that we know what we want the code words to say but they're just not there. What do you we think of these two scenarios:

1) We all seem to agree that when we create an electrode (like a driving a ground rod) that can be used as an auxiliary electrode and is not required to be connected connect to the GES.

2) Building has epoxy coated rebar so we can create a CEE by laying 20' of bare #4 in a footing that can be used as an auxillary electrode and is not required to be connected to the GES.

Would the 20’ of bare #4 qualify as a cee . Correct me if I’m wrong but

I think that we know what we want the code words to say but they're just not there. What do you we think of these two scenarios:

1) We all seem to agree that when we create an electrode (like a driving a ground rod) that can be used as an auxiliary electrode and is not required to be connected connect to the GES.

2) Building has epoxy coated rebar so we can create a CEE by laying 20' of bare #4 in a footing that can be used as an auxillary electrode and is not required to be connected to the GES.

the epoxy coated rebar doesn’t meet the requirements to be used as a cee so there’s no cee present to tie into the building GES . You’re adding a auxiliary grounding electrode they auxiliary electrode doesn’t have to meet any specific conditions so because of that it doesn’t have to tie into the GES
and in regards to #1 if the rebar was allowed to be used as a cee then that cee could still be used/called a auxiliary grounded electrode but since it’s available and would qualify to be used as a cee it would need do be a auxiliary grounding electrode that you bonded into the building GES
I think said that correctly this time lol

 

[infinity]

You’re adding a auxiliary grounding electrode they auxiliary electrode doesn’t have to meet any specific conditions so because of that it doesn’t have to tie into the GES

You're making a CEE regardless of whether it's part of the GES or an auxiliary electrode it's still a CEE. There is no wording in the NEC that has a distinction between a CEE you create with a conductor and one that is made from rebar. Therefore there is no wording that states one must be part of the GES and the other one does not. Personally I think this needs to be rewritten to clarify what is or isn't required. Jaggedben started us down this rabbit hole, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jaybone812]

You're making a CEE regardless of whether it's part of the GES or an auxiliary electrode it's still a CEE. There is no wording in the NEC that has a distinction between a CEE you create with a conductor and one that is made from rebar. Therefore there is no wording that states one must be part of the GES and the other one does not. Personally I think this needs to be rewritten to clarify what is or isn't required. Jaggedben started us down this rabbit hole, I'll leave it at that.

And that’s where my interpretation of the language in 250.50 is a little different than yours in regards to when 250.50 says” all electrodes permitted for grounding present at a building are required to be bonded to the building’s GES”
Im looking at the phrase “ present at the building “ as 250.50 saying the as long as all electrides present are bonded into the GES in accordance to what the code requires of that specific grounding electrode per 250.52(1-8) , you’ve satisfied 250.50 and any other electrode that’s already present or added can be a auxiliary grounding electrode not that’s not required to be connected to the buildings GES .
I think we both mean the same thing and both want the words to say the same thing so I’m in agreement that a little more clarification on this specific part of the code would be great !


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