New Blood

[George Stolz]

I don't mean to be cold hearted - I'm just saying, as a friend, that you have been around long enough to realize this old argument has been around the block quite a few times - that's all. No offense intended.

 

[George Stolz]

the first think i would like to do is apologize to the moderator for calling him fidel castro. That wasn't nice, i sorry.

lol! .............

 

[peter d]

I don't mean to be cold hearted - I'm just saying, as a friend, that you have been around long enough to realize this old argument has been around the block quite a few times - that's all. No offense intended.

Yes, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment apparently. :roll:

 

[peter d]

I don't mean to be cold hearted - I'm just saying, as a friend, that you have been around long enough to realize this old argument has been around the block quite a few times - that's all. No offense intended.

I guess I'm just bitter that you told Quogue not to make cow jokes anymore. That really ruined my week.

 

[c2500]

Well,

I am going to chime in. I agree with Peter. Some people want good, some better, and some best. The work I do is better or best. After fixing some stuff today that I did 15 years ago, (which was bad and..well lets just say BAD..but then I was not licensed or even in the industry and the place did not burn down yet and I still own it) I strive for the best. Not everyone wants to pay for it though. So I will do "better". For those that want good, I sendem to Craigslist and let them find what they are looking for..and hope they ran that 5/8" sheetrock where required.

Personally, I feel code is the bare minimum. But code minimum does have its place in the world. However, it does not need to be in a $750,000 house.

c2500

 

[Dolfan]

Yes, I guess I'm a glutton for punishment apparently. :roll:

Years ago,I worked for a EC on South Beach that required there workers to make up a 42 circuit panel in 50 minutes. No lie. Not only that, you had to high press the lugs and get the material up to the floor you were on. All in the name of the bottom line. So what gives? Well the next electrician will find out, thats for sure. It took me 3 hours, working like somebody had a gun to my head. The owner of the company said, the other to guys can do it faster. I said those are the guys that you need to have doing it then.

 

[George Stolz]

I guess I'm just bitter that you told Quogue not to make cow jokes anymore. That really ruined my week.

...And for the record, I didn't tell him not to, I just said I would pay him cash to stop - that's different.

 

[mikeames]

This article in the Times talks exactly what this thread is about when it comes to kids and manual labor. Excellent article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24labor-t.html

 

[Rewire]

Cost is the primary thing that is on people's mind these days. Hence why McDonald's, Burger King and WalMart are thriving right now.

If you believe the success of these companies is based on pricing then you have much to learn about business

The trouble with your line of thought is that it's not adaptable enough. You have to be willing to do neat and professional looking as well as down and dirty. The budget does not always allow you to do things the way you like. You need to provide "good, better and best" options and let the customer choose the one they want.

This is the trap that almost every failed business has fallen into.

 

[mikeames]

This is the trap that almost every failed business has fallen into.

Is this a statistic or a personal feeling when you say "almost" every? Is that 99%? I only write this because I agree with peter, and your statement infers we hav emuch to learn about business. I may have a lot to learn but I believe many others would also. Much of walmarts success did come from pricing power. I have statistics and facts to prove it but feel it is off topic to post the 12 facts I have.

If many failed business fall into the good, better, best trap, then many successful also fall into the good better best trap.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

If you believe the success of these companies is based on pricing then you have much to learn about business

This is the trap that almost every failed business has fallen into.

Absolutely right. From what I gather from PeterD, the cheapest EC wins every bid. We all know that's not true. Not saying PaterD does shoddy work, I have no idea but I assume he does fine installs, I can't agree with the "as the crow flies" mentality. That's just one corner to cut. Then another corner, then another, and soon you'll find yourself getting careless and sloppy. I've seen it a million times.

 

[mikeames]

Its funny how some feel neat means 90's. As the crow files can be neat. As a customer if you can save me 10 dollars a foot when running a feeder at 45 degrees as oppose to a 90 and two legs then run a neat 45.

 

[Rewire]

Is this a statistic or a personal feeling when you say "almost" every? Is that 99%? I only write this because I agree with peter, and your statement infers we hav emuch to learn about business. I may have a lot to learn but I believe many others would also. Much of walmarts success did come from pricing power. I have statistics and facts to prove it but feel it is off topic to post the 12 facts I have.

If many failed business fall into the good, better, best trap, then many successful also fall into the good better best trap.

K-mart was at one time a larger retailer than Wal-mart but they went into bankruptcy.
If you believe Peter is right then I am happy for you and I hope it works out for you.

Their is alot more to the wal-mart business model than price and actuallt lower prices are a byproduct of the business model ,do you think that Ray Kroc focused on selling cheap hamburgers?

 

[Besoeker]

Is this me or everyone is experiencing a shortage of new generation of electricians. I am 34 and started @ 16 worked my way up the ranks and now I am the EC. Kids these days are sure diffrent:-?

This whole thread has meandered off topic - maybe that's no bad thing.
And exchange of ideas on any topic can be positive.

On the original point, my experience over a number of years now is that fewer young people are getting into technical fields. For whatever reason, it just doesn't seem to appeal. In our family, for example, there were just two in the electrical field. Myself and my wife's uncle. He has long since retired and I have one foot in the grave.

I am reminded of a conversation I had on a project at the back end of last year. Three of us were sitting round a table drinking coffee and waiting for things to happen - typical for commissoning of large piece of plant. Hurry up, and wait. The three were myself (very old) the project consultant, ten years my senior, and our project engineer, the youngster at just approaching fifty.

 

[peter d]

If you believe the success of these companies is based on pricing then you have much to learn about business

I seriously think you must have been drunk when you wrote this because that's how outlandish a statement that is. Let's reason through this, shall we?

What is WalMart's tagline? "Always low prices. Always." Is WalMart known for having high quality merchandise? Nope. Good service? Nope. Selection? Yeah, pretty good, but if you ask 10 people why they shop at WalMart, I guarantee they will tell you "Because it's cheap." WalMart has in industry wide reputation for unmercifully beating down suppliers to the very last penny to lower their prices on merchandise that WalMart sells.

But you're right...price has nothing to do with WalMart's success.

 

[peter d]

Absolutely right. From what I gather from PeterD, the cheapest EC wins every bid.

If that's all you've gotten out of my comments so far, then you've missed my point entirely.

But, since you mentioned it, the cheapest bid is usually the one that wins. Not always of course, but most of the time, it is.

 

[bradleyelectric]

If that's all you've gotten out of my comments so far, then you've missed my point entirely.

But, since you mentioned it, the cheapest bid is usually the one that wins. Not always of course, but most of the time, it is.

The key is to know your market, and be able to work within it. Commercial construction is a lot different from residential service in the approch to be successful. Often how to make the most money is to be the cheapest price by being the only price. That is possible through many different areas of the trade. Other times it is by knowing your limitations.

 

[jeremysterling]

Absolutely right. From what I gather from PeterD, the cheapest EC wins every bid. We all know that's not true. Not saying PaterD does shoddy work, I have no idea but I assume he does fine installs, I can't agree with the "as the crow flies" mentality. That's just one corner to cut. Then another corner, then another, and soon you'll find yourself getting careless and sloppy. I've seen it a million times.

I'm not a businessman, but: "That's just one corner to cut. Then another corner, then another, and soon you'll find yourself getting..." successful and wealthy "...I've seen it a million times."

 

[peter d]

I seriously think you must have been drunk when you wrote this because that's how outlandish a statement that is. Let's reason through this, shall we?

What is WalMart's tagline? "Always low prices. Always." Is WalMart known for having high quality merchandise? Nope. Good service? Nope. Selection? Yeah, pretty good, but if you ask 10 people why they shop at WalMart, I guarantee they will tell you "Because it's cheap." WalMart has in industry wide reputation for unmercifully beating down suppliers to the very last penny to lower their prices on merchandise that WalMart sells.

But you're right...price has nothing to do with WalMart's success.

For the record, I am absolutely NOT recommending a WalMart business model for an electrical contracting business.

 

[Rewire]

I seriously think you must have been drunk when you wrote this because that's how outlandish a statement that is. Let's reason through this, shall we?

What is WalMart's tagline? "Always low prices. Always." Is WalMart known for having high quality merchandise? Nope. Good service? Nope. Selection? Yeah, pretty good, but if you ask 10 people why they shop at WalMart, I guarantee they will tell you "Because it's cheap." WalMart has in industry wide reputation for unmercifully beating down suppliers to the very last penny to lower their prices on merchandise that WalMart sells.

But you're right...price has nothing to do with WalMart's success.

Show me were I said price had NOTHING to do with Wal-Marts success.Maybe you were smokin dope when you read my post.

I don't think you grasp the difference between a business that sells at the lowest price and a business that by its design can sell at the lowest price.

Price was just one part of Wal-marts rise to dominance in the retail industry,the Woolworths had low prices and so did The Ben Franklin