Outlets Per Breaker

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Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Gentlemen: kindly refer to Table 210.21(B)(2) and 210.21(B)(3). A 15 amp duplex receptacle is allowed on a 20A circuit, BUT you are only allowed to plug a 12 amp load into it. You will find that Listed utilization equipment with a 15A attachment plug will have a current rating of not more than 12 amps.
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by john m. caloggero:
You will find that Listed utilization equipment with a 15A attachment plug will have a current rating of not more than 12 amps.
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Mr Caloggero no disrespect intended here however there are plenty of 120 volt 1800 watt (15 amps) hair dryers on the market. I have yet to see one with a 20 amp plug.

Perhaps they are not listed?

Or perhaps they do not draw what they claim?

This link will take you to a bunch of them.

1800 watt Hair dryers
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Yep just like those 5 hp air compressors that Sears sell's. :roll:

I don't think they truly use that much power. It's some kind of peek rating that has no mathematical starting point. :mad:
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

This is a total stab in the dark, but what if they expect it to be used on the bath GFI circuit, and somehow talked somebody into somehow letting it slide? Who knows? :)
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

This thread is in regards to outlets not load demands from a use item of power.No tangents!!
There is nothing in the NEC that actually says a dedicated circuit CAN have a 15 a duplex receptacle.what is addressed is if 2 or more receptacles are used it is permissible to use a 15 a device.Also what is said is that if a single device on a indvidual circuit is used it will match ampacities.I have challenged AHJ`S to show me an article when I know this is something they would prefer.
Plain and simple,we can debate till the cows come home.But if there is an area that is not set in stone,what is written in text takes the upper hand ;)
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

There is nothing in the NEC that actually says a dedicated circuit CAN have a 15 a duplex receptacle
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I would disagree:

210.21(B)(3)Receptacle Ratings Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3).
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Table 210.21(B)(3)-Under the heading of Circuit Rating a 20 amp circuit can have a receptacle rating of 15 or 20 amps, but the table doesn't allow us to stop there since it falls under 210.21(B)(3), which tells us that if it's two or more receptacles then it can be 15 or 20 amp duplex (two receptacles according to the definition in article 100) receptacle on a 20 amp circuit. A duplex is two or more receptacles so it is permitted by the NEC.

What is a dedicated circuit as defined by the NEC?

[ May 08, 2005, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by allenwayne:
There is nothing in the NEC that actually says a dedicated circuit CAN have a 15 a duplex receptacle.
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If it has two receptacles, it ceases to be a "dedicated circuit." Simma down now. :D

Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.

Branch Circuit, General-Purpose. A branch circuit that supplies two or more receptacles or outlets for lighting and appliances.
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Re: Outlets Per Breaker

In the examples mentioned for part of the thread the reference was to a 20 amp individual branch circuit supplying a refrigerator receptacle. The NEC does not require an individual branch circuit for a fridge. Therefore there is no basis for an inspector to require a single receptacle for this. A 15 amp duplex is fine. Same goes for any 20 amp circuit unless a dedicated "outlet" is required for some reason, a 15 amp duplex is fine on a 20 amp circuit.
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Hi, Scott. :)
(Editted because, I went on a tangent.) :D

(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and (C) and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.

Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
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For clarity, I am going to use the term "dedicated circuit" as a home run for one receptacle outlet box. That's not completely accurate to the NEC, I acknowledge.

So, just to be clear, the code requires the fridge to be on one of the small-appliance branch circuits. If you pull a dedicated 20-amp circuit, and put a duplex on it for the fridge, then it is a "small-appliance" branch circuit. The other receptacle is pretty useless, but does exist nonetheless. Thus, it can be a 15-amp duplex per 210.21(C). (In fact, it could be argued that using a duplex behind the fridge is illegal, as a violation of (B)(2). The other receptacle that the fridge isn't using is not serving wall/counter space, and therefore would be an "other outlet." :D )

If you pull a 20 dedicated circuit for the fridge, and put a single receptacle on it, it must be a 20-ampere rated single receptacle per 210.21(A). It is an individual branch circuit, so it must comply with the receptacle rating section as such.

If you don't pull a dedicated circuit for the stinking thing, you've still got the "other outlets" thing screwing things up. But that too makes it a small-appliance branch circuit. :D

So, I guess in the end, a single receptacle is required. That's dumb. :D

[ May 08, 2005, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

210.21.(B)(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
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What if this were changed:
210.21.(B)(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

For the purposes of this section, a duplex receptacle installed to serve equipment of mass and/or dimensions that prohibit the use of the unused receptacle shall be considered a single receptacle in applying the requirements of this section.
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Do you think that's reasonable, or that it's just inviting confusion? By rights, it should be written as an exception, since it is directly in opposition to the primary rule. But then the exceptions wouldn't partake in the new writing. But then again, they wouldn't really benefit from it anyway.

But then again, I'm talking in circles again. :D
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

George, you are twisted. Suppose you do run a 20 amp circuit to the fridge, and put in a 15 amp duplex receptacle. And suppose you then say now it's a small appliance circuit. Where now does the problem lie?
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

I don't consider the second receptacle of a 'fridge duplex to be unusable. Plenty of people place radios and other stuff on their 'fridge.
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Originally posted by allenwayne:
There is nothing in the NEC that actually says a dedicated circuit CAN have a 15 a duplex receptacle.
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If it has two receptacles, it ceases to be a "dedicated circuit." Simma down now. :D

Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.
That is my point in a nut shell if it is a duplex then it isn`t dedicated the NEC says individual circuit not dedicated,this is hair splitting to the extreme ;)
Look at a gfci device 20 amp rated but 15 amp feed through.Same deal individual/dedicated 20 amp single receptacle 15 amp feed through,but if a gfci device it does have 2 receptacle outlets :confused:
Now lets take a 15 amp duplex that has been used in this discussion and break both tabs,now we have 2 receptacle outlets but they are on the same yoke.Can they have 2 15 amp individual circuits or 2 20 amp individual circuits feeding them.IMO this woukd limit them to 15 amp circuits since the cord connect point of attachment will be on a 15 amp ocpd

Branch Circuit, General-Purpose. A branch circuit that supplies two or more receptacles or outlets for lighting and appliances.
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Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
George, you are twisted. Suppose you do run a 20 amp circuit to the fridge, and put in a 15 amp duplex receptacle. And suppose you then say now it's a small appliance circuit. Where now does the problem lie?
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If you look at the exceptions to (B)(2), the gas range one falls under the same principle--why the heck is this an "other outlet?" Because it's a receptacle on an SA serving space other than "walls/counters/fridge." So, IMO, the only way to look at this, is a receptacle behind a fridge not serving refrigeration equipment is a technical violation.

Like I said, it's dumb, but I think I'm right. :)
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Now lets take a 15 amp duplex that has been used in this discussion and break both tabs,now we have 2 receptacle outlets but they are on the same yoke.Can they have 2 15 amp individual circuits or 2 20 amp individual circuits feeding them.
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You're right, you'd have to have 2 15-amp individual circuits, unless you used a 20-amp duplex. :)

[ May 09, 2005, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

George if you had a 15 amp duplex on a individual circuit behind a fridge IMO it would have to be a 20 amp rated duplex or a single 20 amp receptacle,in order to allow this to be a 15 there would have to be more than one receptacle on this circuit and since it has already been determined that it is a individal circuit 20 a then it doesn`t matter which a single 20 or a 20 a duplex is used.
My whole point when I stated my inspector goes to the panel and checks the legend is to see if the fridge is dedicated/individual at that point as we have seen a 15 amp duplex is not ok,but if it is part of the dining/nook circuit or the gfci circuit than there are 2 or more receptacle outlets on the circuit and it is fine to use a 15 a duplex.IMO as long as you use the term individual there is no way to use a duplex receptacle since there are 2 points of utilization so 210 20 B 1 takes over and it has to be a single 20 amp receptacle outlet ;)
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Also if behind a fridge then it is not readily accesible and a 20 a duplex can be used in lieu of a single receptacle outlet,This is MHO :D
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

George if you had a 15 amp duplex on a individual circuit behind a fridge IMO it would have to be a 20 amp rated duplex or a single 20 amp receptacle,in order to allow this to be a 15 there would have to be more than one receptacle on this circuit and since it has already been determined that it is a individal circuit 20 a then it doesn`t matter which a single 20 or a 20 a duplex is used.
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A 15 amp duplex is more than one receptacle according to the definition in article 100.
 
Re: Outlets Per Breaker

infinity You are very correct. A duplex receptacle is "TWO RECEPTACLES" on one yoke period!

I think they are thinking too hard and getting mixed up.

Well in George's case he's just twisted.
dizzy.gif
 
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