Range plug

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jap said:
The whole point is, if the outlet that the igniter is plugged into is in a location that requires GFI Protection, and the igniter is causing the GFI to trip, I don't see any other resolution than for the home owner to call the appliance store and have them keep bringing ranges out until there is one found that won't trip the GFI.

Either that, or, move it to a location that doesn't require it.

I agree it's not our job to find an appliance that wont trip the GFI, and, it may make us look like we're incompetent or the problem is on our side to the GC or the Homeowner when it isn't, but, that's when you got to strap up and stand your ground.

Not go doing things you shouldn't that's against code, or, puts you at liability and others in danger just to save face.

JAP>
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Well if your GFCI is one of those $4.00 ones from a big box store, you might want to at least put in something better before saying nothing wrong with the GFCI;)
 
kwired said:
Well if your GFCI is one of those $4.00 ones from a big box store, you might want to at least put in something better before saying nothing wrong with the GFCI;)
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You know what I mean.


JAP>
 
Craigv said:
Ah, so you're still referring to non dwelling unit kitchens. Gotcha.
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I don't know that OP specified dwelling or not, conversation sort of went the dwelling direction at first. Then non dwelling needing GFCI got thrown in there, and is true plus more got added for 2017 then was there before.
 
kwired said:
I don't know that OP specified dwelling or not, conversation sort of went the dwelling direction at first. Then non dwelling needing GFCI got thrown in there, and is true plus more got added for 2017 then was there before.
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Yeah, the entire discussion has been vague in regard to which code articles and what sort of kitchen was under consideration at any given point. And no, the OP did not specify location, only clarified that it was a 50a 240v range.
 
jap said:
The whole point is, if the outlet that the igniter is plugged into is in a location that requires GFI Protection, and the igniter is causing the GFI to trip, I don't see any other resolution than for the home owner to call the appliance store and have them keep bringing ranges out until there is one found that won't trip the GFI.
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It’s already been established that in a residential kitchen a GFCI is not required for a range-oven. So, if I mis-spoke, and I probably did, then I apologize and admit my mistake.

Either that, or, move it to a location that doesn't require it.
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Probably not possible or practical.

I agree it's not our job to find an appliance that wont trip the GFI, and, it may make us look like we're incompetent or the problem is on our side to the GC or the Homeowner when it isn't, but, that's when you got to strap up and stand your ground.
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I don’t have a problem standing my ground if the HO is holding a few hundred $$$. I have a real problem if they are holding a couple of thousand $$$.

Not go doing things you shouldn't that's against code, or, puts you at liability and others in danger just to save face.
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If I’m getting inspected and the problem exists at the time of inspection I will bring it to the EI’s attention to see if we can come up with a solution. If it occurs after the inspection and the HO can’t get the applianc store to correct the problem does that mean the onus is on me to correct it ? Do I walk away and leave the HO without a range ? Do I tell her to use a barbecue lighter instead of the spark igniter?:p
 
goldstar said:
If it occurs after the inspection and the HO can’t get the applianc store to correct the problem does that mean the onus is on me to correct it ?
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No

Do I walk away and leave the HO without a range ?
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No. You probably ought to leave their range with them. :)


Do I tell her to use a barbecue lighter instead of the spark igniter?:p
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No.

JAP>
 
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goldstar said:
I don’t have a problem standing my ground if the HO is holding a few hundred $$$. I have a real problem if they are holding a couple of thousand $$$.
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And that pretty well explains everything right there.

JAP>
 
Who knows, the high rollers might even respect the fact that you know your stuff, and, that should make you feel like a million bucks. :)


We all fight those battles when it gets to that point, so you're not alone.

JAP>
 
Have we even established that a typical 120v receptacle located behind, and serving only, (therefore inaccessible) a gas range in a dwelling unit requires gfci protection? Looking at NEC 2017, I see countertop-serving receptacles all require gfci (210.8(A)(6)), and for kitchen dishwasher branch circuits (210.8(D)). Am I missing or misinterpreting something?
 
For what It's worth, instead of worrying about whether one was required or not,when in doubt, I've installed GFI protected outlets behind Gas Stoves that have a 120v cord on them for the igniters and they operate fine without issue.

I don't know that the whole igniter causing all kinds of trouble is as big a deal as what it's being made out to be.

JAP>
 
Craigv said:
Have we even established that a typical 120v receptacle located behind, and serving only, (therefore inaccessible) a gas range in a dwelling unit requires gfci protection? Looking at NEC 2017, I see countertop-serving receptacles all require gfci (210.8(A)(6)), and for kitchen dishwasher branch circuits (210.8(D)). Am I missing or misinterpreting something?
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Behind and not accessible - probably not required, depends on one's interpretation of wording just right before sub part (A), but even then would only be required if said receptacle were also serving a countertop (which wouldn't apply if actually behind the range) or within six feet of a sink.
 
jap said:
For what It's worth, instead of worrying about whether one was required or not,when in doubt, I've installed GFI protected outlets behind Gas Stoves that have a 120v cord on them for the igniters and they operate fine without issue.

I don't know that the whole igniter causing all kinds of trouble is as big a deal as what it's being made out to be.

JAP>
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You are correct, it is not a big deal. I never meant to imply that this type of nuisance tripping happens all the time. I’ve had instances where it did trigger a GFCI receptacle and I removed it from that protection.
 
goldstar said:
You are correct, it is not a big deal. I never meant to imply that this type of nuisance tripping happens all the time. I’ve had instances where it did trigger a GFCI receptacle and I removed it from that protection.
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The mass has ended..... go in peace. :)


JAP>
 
Ok.. clarification please... the rue of 6 feet from the sink --- if a stove is placed on an adjoining wall- it is four feet from corner of wall and sink is 3 feet from corner of wall, does that count as needing gfci? or outside the limits?
Same idea basically... stove is on an island, with walkway dividing... again a gas stove..lol...or a cooktop only...

Residential...
 
jap said:
The mass has ended..... go in peace. :)


JAP>
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Thanks. I hope I didn’t interrupt your hard working day but I’m on the beach in Aruba with nothing else to do but chat with all of you nice folks here in the Forum:cool::bye:
 
goldstar said:
Thanks. I hope I didn’t interrupt your hard working day but I’m on the beach in Aruba with nothing else to do but chat with all of you nice folks here in the Forum:cool::bye:
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Are you serious right now?

Dangit.

Good for you. Enjoy your time.

JAP>
 
kwired said:
Behind and not accessible - probably not required, depends on one's interpretation of wording just right before sub part (A), but even then would only be required if said receptacle were also serving a countertop (which wouldn't apply if actually behind the range) or within six feet of a sink.
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Before sub part (A) in NEC 2017 we have an informational note referring to 422.5(A), which doesn't mention ranges, and the distance determination measuring method for the section. Other than interpreting 210.8(A)(7) as applying to an inaccessible appliance receptacle that is within 6 ft from the edge of a sink (which seems reasonable), there doesn't appear to be any other requirement.
 
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