Romex in a Commercial building

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ultramegabob said:
if the suspended ceiling has a 15 minute rating, does there have to be any other barrier on the bottom of the trusses to protect the NM? Is a suspended ceiling a finished surface?
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334.12(A)(2) prohibits using NM in dropped or suspended ceilings in other then dwelling units regardless of the finish rating.

As I understand it under the current NEC you should never be able to 'see' NM in other then dwelling units.

Here in MA we have amendments that change the NEC requirements.
 
Okay, it says it cannot be exposed above the suspended ceiling, what if they install batted insulation to the bottom of the trusses, Is it exposed anymore? does the ceiling count as the finished 15 minute finished surface?
 
ultramegabob said:
Okay, it says it cannot be exposed above the suspended ceiling, what if they install batted insulation to the bottom of the trusses, Is it exposed anymore? does the ceiling count as the finished 15 minute finished surface?
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I don't know.
 
ultramegabob said:
Okay, it says it cannot be exposed above the suspended ceiling, what if they install batted insulation to the bottom of the trusses, Is it exposed anymore? does the ceiling count as the finished 15 minute finished surface?
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334.10 requires it to be concealed behind a 15 min. rating.........

Art 100 Rendered inaccessable by the building.......
 
volt102 said:
334.10 requires it to be concealed behind a 15 min. rating.........

Art 100 Rendered inaccessable by the building.......
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what exactly does it take to make it inaccessable? the insulation is stapled in place.
 
ultramegabob said:
what exactly does it take to make it inaccessable? the insulation is stapled in place.
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Actually, it's intended to be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material with at least a 15-minute finish rating.

You would not be permitted to simply cover the romex with a fiber insulation then have no ceiling cover, then a void, then a dropped or suspended ceiling. :smile:
 
ultramegabob said:
what exactly does it take to make it inaccessable? the insulation is stapled in place.
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Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.
 
Why bother trying to circumvent the code with technicalities?

Use MC cable and be professional.

NM is not for that application and that about sums it up.:smile:
 
ivsenroute said:
Why bother trying to circumvent the code with technicalities?

Use MC cable and be professional.

NM is not for that application and that about sums it up.:smile:
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the entire code is nothing but technicalities, what makes it unprofessional to run NM if it is allowed? personally, I dont run NM because we have local ammendments that pretty much rule it out for almost all commercial buildings. My questions about the NM are more of an excersize to find out where the line is drawn in the code.
 
ivsenroute said:
Why bother trying to circumvent the code with technicalities?

Use MC cable and be professional.

NM is not for that application and that about sums it up.:smile:
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Is the building wood stud or metal stud ?
If wood stud, I don't see anything unprofessional about using Romex. . It's a code issue only.

I think covering Romex with insulation above a nondwelling drop ceiling is not what CMP 7 had in mind by 334.12(A)(2) but I don't think the wording is there that would allow me, as an inspector, to stop you from doing it [by writing it up as a violation].

Exposed (as applied to wiring methods). On or attached to the surface or behind panels designed to allow access.
 
ivsenroute said:
The professional part is when you follow the code.:cool:
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Code is minimum standard. . A true professional doesn't look to build to minimum. . At times there isn't a good reason to build above minimum [ex: why would anyone daisychain a short 120v/20a plug circuit in 10gauge]. . At other times exceeding the minimum is the mark of quality and professional installation.

Defining the code minimum can be hard. . Determining when to exceed it can sometimes be even harder.
 
peter d said:
...I'll just say that I have never seen one piece of evidence supporting the "safety aspect" of this prohibition...
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Same perilous situation as projector cord thru ceiling to the receptacle...;) :rolleyes: :grin:
 
engy said:
Same perilous situation as projector cord thru ceiling to the receptacle...;) :rolleyes: :grin:
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The dreaded perilous projector cord !!
The death toll from that thing is HUGE !!
 
ivsenroute said:
Why bother trying to circumvent the code with technicalities?

Use MC cable and be professional.

NM is not for that application and that about sums it up.:smile:
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I have another question. When I run the MC cable, can I staple it to the top of the floor joists? Would it be adequately protected from physical damage by itself?
 
StreamlineGT said:
I have another question. When I run the MC cable, can I staple it to the top of the floor joists? Would it be adequately protected from physical damage by itself?
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on the top of floor joists? wont it be in the way of the flooring?
 
Then there is real world electrical.. You meet code, make bid and try to make money. If the customer wants to pay for extra great but if they want romex who are you to say no as long as it's legal.
 
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