Romex switch legs

[lakee911]

What is the word on using 14/2+G NM for switch legs? Any trouble with remarking the white wire as far as the 2008 NEC goes?

 

[roger]

See article 200

Roger

 

[raider1]

Make sure that the remarked white is used as the supply to the switch and not the return to the lighting outlet.

Check out 200.7(C)(1).

Chris

 

[jumper]

What is the word on using 14/2+G NM for switch legs? Any trouble with remarking the white wire as far as the 2008 NEC goes?

200.7(C)(2) Down on white, back on black. Remarking is required.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What is the word on using 14/2+G NM for switch legs? Any trouble with remarking the white wire as far as the 2008 NEC goes?

We assume the fed is also 14/2. If the circuits is a 20 amp circuit then 14/2 would be a violation.

 

[LarryFine]

Make sure that the remarked white is used as the supply to the switch and not the return to the lighting outlet.

Down on white, back on black. Remarking is required.

It seems silly that we must recolor the wire so it's no longer white, but we must still use it as the white wire. :roll:

 

[jumper]

We assume the feed is on a 15 amp circuit. If the circuit is a 20 amp circuit then 14/2 would be a violation.

I am bored, so I modified your post.:grin:

 

[jumper]

It seems silly that we must recolor the wire so it's no longer white, but we must still use it as the white wire. :roll:

Must protect the incompetent and DIYers.:grin:

This change came about in the 99 code,right?

 

[busman]

It seems silly that we must recolor the wire so it's no longer white, but we must still use it as the white wire. :roll:

I agree either it's white or it's not. Which is it. If we re-color it, what difference does it make which leg it is. Just stupid. I'd much rather have the black feed the switch and recolor the white to red. Any electrician would make more sense of that.

Mark

 

[480sparky]

200.7(C)(2) has got to be one of the most stupid additions to the Code.

Is there anyone who is qualified really going to pull out a switch, look at a black and a white wire hooked to it, and think, "Dang! This thing is going to create a dead short, what with putting the black and white together like that on a switch!"

 

[jeremysterling]

I agree either it's white or it's not. Which is it. If we re-color it, what difference does it make which leg it is. Just stupid. I'd much rather have the black feed the switch and recolor the white to red. Any electrician would make more sense of that.

Mark

Could make sense of it with a voltmeter, perhaps.

We are trying to avoid opening a fixture with only the supply conductors entering the fixture make up area (say through a pop-in bushing) and both wires coming into the fixture are white (with the black tape above the fixture in the 4/0 box). Two white wires equals break out the meter and hope for a ground or use your tic tracer to figure out the hot. It is easier to use the traditional and required method of re-identifying.

When the rule was explained this way to me, it made some sense.

 

[LarryFine]

I'd much rather have the black feed the switch and recolor the white to red. Any electrician would make more sense of that.

If you think about it, most often with a 2-wire switch loop, the feed wire (white) is connected to one or more blacks, and that connection rarely needs to be disturbed in the future.

On the other hand, with the white as the return, the load would now have two white wires supplying it. While it should be obvious which white is which, the first method is fool-proof.



Okay, let's make that fool-resistant.

 

[LarryFine]

Is there anyone who is qualified really going to pull out a switch, look at a black and a white wire hooked to it, and think, "Dang! This thing is going to create a dead short, what with putting the black and white together like that on a switch!"

You'd be surprised. I once had an inexperienced helper who saw a white wire on a 3-way, and removed it from the terminal and connected it to the "other neutrals" in the box. :roll:

 

[jxofaltrds]

Make sure that the remarked white is used as the supply to the switch and not the return to the lighting outlet.

Check out 200.7(C)(1).

Chris

Agreed. I was told on this forum years ago that this was not true. By the master himself.

It is on the old forum so I can not find it.

Now does it apply to travellers also????

 

[LarryFine]

Now does it apply to travellers also????

In the sense that the white should only be used for the hot feed to the "farthest" 3-way, and the black and red as the travelers back, yes.

The one place the white as a switched wire or traveler is unavoidable is the light-and-power-between-the-switches scenario.

 

[ceb58]

code change

code change

Isn't this going to change in the upcoming 2011 code? You can no longer use the 2 wire switch loop due to the requirement of having to have the grounded conductor in the box with the switch.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Now does it apply to travellers also????

The white wire may be used as a traveler but not as a return to the light.

 

[Electron_Sam78]

Make sure that the remarked white is used as the supply to the switch and not the return to the lighting outlet.

Check out 200.7(C)(1).

Chris

I think the idea behind this is not to have two white wires coming in to a light fixture

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think the idea behind this is not to have two white wires coming in to a light fixture

Yes but it isn't white if it is taped blacked. That is what others are saying. I guess it can be easy to tape the wrong wire. I have no problem with this code and I have done it this when for 25 years or more.

 

[sameguy]

This is a skilled trade, why we are making it a "job" is so anyone, read that cheap unskilled labor can do most of our work. My doctor told me he too is having the same problem in his skilled trade.