rough-in rejected

Merry Christmas
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IF you are going to do somthing like that in the furture, I would leave the inspector a note. Sometimes the inspectors can help you avoid a lot of costly work with the forsite they have.
What you did is not a code violation until you installed this on a breaker larger than a 15, If you perminatly identify the wire in the panel for the breaker size this may have helped. He does need to know this, and I will tell you why.
This is not a code violation, its a red flag warning. Whenever you go way off the beaten path you raise a red flag, like too many staples in romex, or too many straps holding up MC cable. Yes it is ok to install as many straps as you want and not violate the code but it tell the inspector that you may not no the code on spacing, that makes him look closley at everything to find out what else you didn't know about the code. Be carefull, know your codes. If you are unfarmillair with the product, look for the do's and dont's in the code book before you start and refresh your memeory. Don't throw off any red flags for the inspector. And lastly as a Contractor, It is ok fine for a second set of eyes to look at your work and point out anything you may have missed that may cause a recall or even a fire, yes it does hurt your pride a little but it is much better than callig your Lawyer or insurance company. I would explain what you were doing with the #12 wire, perminatly identify the wire to go into a 15 amp breaker, thank the inspector for watching out for a possible house fire and quit mixing wire sizes.
PS I couldn't tell you all of this if I haven't done it myself, Perry Vogler
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
IF you are going to do somthing like that in the furture, I would leave the inspector a note. Sometimes the inspectors can help you avoid a lot of costly work with the forsite they have.
What you did is not a code violation until you installed this on a breaker larger than a 15, If you perminatly identify the wire in the panel for the breaker size this may have helped. He does need to know this, and I will tell you why.
This is not a code violation, its a red flag warning. Whenever you go way off the beaten path you raise a red flag, like too many staples in romex, or too many straps holding up MC cable. Yes it is ok to install as many straps as you want and not violate the code but it tell the inspector that you may not no the code on spacing, that makes him look closley at everything to find out what else you didn't know about the code. Be carefull, know your codes. If you are unfarmillair with the product, look for the do's and dont's in the code book before you start and refresh your memeory. Don't throw off any red flags for the inspector. And lastly as a Contractor, It is ok fine for a second set of eyes to look at your work and point out anything you may have missed that may cause a recall or even a fire, yes it does hurt your pride a little but it is much better than callig your Lawyer or insurance company. I would explain what you were doing with the #12 wire, perminatly identify the wire to go into a 15 amp breaker, thank the inspector for watching out for a possible house fire and quit mixing wire sizes.
PS I couldn't tell you all of this if I haven't done it myself, Perry Vogler
By the logic of not using too many romex staples, would you also pull only 2 circuits to a kitchen?
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
You shouldn't have to go around during the rough taping up all the homeruns in the first box of each circuit.



This bears repeating. We trust much of the stuff that is found here because we've had time to see for ourselves who knows their stuff and who is full of it.
I meant tape over the breakers I don't want turned on.

We used to put cardboard over panels in new construction with only one cuttout son that only the breaker that was ok to turn on showed. Often the carpenters would pull off the cardboard, pull the tape off the other breakers, turn them all on, and leave them on.

The difference between stupidity and genius is that there is a limit to genius.
 

tgolden

Member
ESI point of view

ESI point of view

As an Electrical Safety Inspector in Ohio, I personally have seen this more than once. First of all the contractor needs to explain his wiring design to the inspector. Second you can upsize wires e.g. (12 gage on a 15 amp circuit). This would be explained during or before the inspection. You can not assume that the owner of present or future owners will think they can replace the breaker with a higher rated breaker.
If you want to take this approach you need to understand the legal aspects of the code and the adjudication procedures. What are you going to adjudicate them on? Just because you purchased a fast car you can only go the speed limit. If not can you see the police stopping all fast cars and issuing them out a ticket because they have the potential for going fast.
You may think this example doesn?t apply because homeowners are not that proficient with the rules of the code. This is not your problem! You are there to inspect the installation, and then you must approve or deny, and if denied, you must list the violation(s) and the section(s) that apply.
 

wrestless

Member
I visit forum often but haven't posted much at all. Today's failed rough-in inspection has prompted me to post tonight. I'm having a master bdrm addition built on to my existing home and had the rough-in wiring inspected today. Came home to a rejected sticker with the comment from inspector stating "14 wire not to be used in a 20amp circuit." I used 12/2 for my light and receptacle circuits with 14/3 for 3 way travelers and switch leg to fan light combo in bathroom. Being a former EC, I had quite a bit of nail on boxes and 12/2 wire laying around I could use so I did. I plan on using 15amp arc fault breakers for my brdrm circuits. Code book is at office but I'm pretty sure 15amp circuits in bdrm's are legal. Is the inspector assuming I will be using 20amp breakers based on the 12/2 I used? Can one not use 12/2 on 15amp circuit? Any thoughts?

Dont see any violation just make sur you tag the 12-2 in your panel witha 15 amp limitation sticker. Kind of what should be done when we derate to many conductors in a conduit. Unfortunatly not to many of us do this procedure.
 

sberger3

Member
Location
Dover Pa
You need to call the inspector. Many municipalities in my area (Pa) require #12 wire for all the wiring: regardless if it is on a 15 or 20amp breaker.
 

sberger3

Member
Location
Dover Pa
This doesn't make sense: just because the wire is a #12, doesn't mean you could automatically put a 20 amp breaker on it. Many wires are upsized for voltage drop for long runs. I have seen #2 on a 20 amp breaker: I wouldn't also assume I could put a 100amp breaker on that cable because the wire is large enough to handle the ampacity at the breaker. Before any breaker in a panel is upsized, the electrician should explore the entire circuit to determine if the whole circuit is protected.
 

newservice

Senior Member
While I have to agree this is OK with a 15A breaker, isn't the rough in supposed to have all the wires landed, including in the panel? I think so, I always do it that way, so I can't fault the inspector, Id have failed it too but probly for being incomplete, or left a note explaining Id come back after it was ready.
 

newservice

Senior Member
While I have to agree this is OK with a 15A breaker, isn't the rough in supposed to have all the wires landed, including in the panel? I think so, I always do it that way, so I can't fault the inspector, Id have failed it too but probly for being incomplete, or left a note explaining Id come back after it was ready.

This is what I get for posting at 3 am. I have done plenty of rough ins where the boxes arent even made up, etc. So, while its allowable, I guess Id have to say mixing #12 and #14 isnt the best practice for a new construction. I'd also run my lights there all on a seperate 15a circuit with#14 .
 
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