Sidework

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emahler said:
how have you survived this long on this planet?

the bogus argument that a guy is doing side work to better himself or put food on his table is the malarky..
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I'd agree with that. I do the side work for the fun extras. The cabin in the woods, the extra bike, the GTO, the built in pool, and the hot tub, despite what the salesman said, costs 100 a month in electricity alone.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Doing side work is no more stealing from an employer than when a different contractor gets the work instead of you. What an employee of yours, or I, do when you're not paying me is none of your business or concern.
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The main difference is the other contractor is not on my payrole,I don't pay other contractors when they don't have work of their own.You trade on the good name of your employer people ask you to do side jobs because they know you work for an electrical contractor and they know you will be cheaper because you are not burdened with the cost of operatining a business and making a weekly payrole for a guy who is competing for the very work you do.As for being on your own time and what you do on it is not an employers concern well if it affects my business then yes it is my concern and low balling work that I do and by the way pays your weekly check is my concern.
 
There is hypocrisy is running rampant in this thread...certain individuals will picket job sites that are being run by legal, legitimate companies that don't belong to a certain club...then they will say that an employee has the right to do illegal side work....

what gives?
 
Why not? You charge the same rate for night or weekend work?---

I'm usualy at work during the day.

My customers like the fact they don't need to take time off from their work.

This alone increases volume.
 
keesha said:
Why not? You charge the same rate for night or weekend work?---

I'm usualy at work during the day.

My customers like the fact they don't need to take time off from their work.

This alone increases volume.
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the irony..."my customers"....i love it...
 
I just don't understand the animosity on this subject. You guys make it out to be that everyone who does side work is working illegally. There is nothing illegal about what I do. I am properly licensed, insured, pull permits, pay taxes, I try to charge a fair price for the work I do (I am not intentionally low-balling anyone), the company I work for is strictly commercial/industrial so I am not stealing work from my employer, in fact I have passed on some leads that have worked out to be pretty good commercial accounts for us!

Some in this thread seem to think that because someone is not willing to risk it all by going into business full time that we are scum bags dragging the whole industry down. I am going to work for myself in the future, as for right now I am using the experience I am getting from doing side work (business experience, not electrical experience) as a tool to learn how to run a business, bid work effectively and not have to risk foreclosure on my house because I screwed up pricing on a couple of jobs and lost my shirt.

Maybe you think I'm taking advantage of my boss by using him as a security blanket and getting a guaranteed paycheck while I do work on the side nights and weekends, but the way I see it when he hired me I promised him an honest 40 hours of quality work every week (which he gets), and he promised me a 40 hour paycheck every week (which I get). I do not see the problem.

Yes, there are guys out there who do work unlicensed, don't pull permits, and do service changes for $800, but don't put me in that same category.

There are a few guys in here who need to get down off their soap box and think back to what it was like when they were trying to start out on their own. Everyone has to start somewhere and I will not jump blindly into full time self employment until I can limit the risk a little by gaining some more experience w/ bidding jobs and making a profit, and the only way to do that is by doing side work, work full time for someone else for some guaranteed money, and try and put away as much money as I can to make my goal a reality and be able to fund a business. I do realize that running a business is expensive, time consuming, and requires a lot of dedication and I hope I can prepare myself the best I can to try and limit some of the risk.
 
emahler said:
There is hypocrisy is running rampant in this thread...certain individuals will picket job sites that are being run by legal, legitimate companies that don't belong to a certain club...then they will say that an employee has the right to do illegal side work....
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I agree. Many moons ago (so it seems) I was interested in joining the union apprenticeship program. I went through the interview process and when I was accepted, they gave us a contract to take home with us. They advised us to read it carefully, even have a lawyer look at it, before we signed it and went back to hall to start the program. There was very clear language in it that forbade union members from doing side work. Union members are to work for union contractors. The only other option in the contract language was to become a union contractor - period, end of story. Any violation of the rules would be termination of union membership. I don't know if all locals have these rules but they are there for a reason. I know that the rules are broken, but I would tend to think the IBEW takes a dim view of sidework.
 
EBFD6 said:
I just don't understand the animosity on this subject. You guys make it out to be that everyone who does side work is working illegally. There is nothing illegal about what I do. I am properly licensed, insured, pull permits, pay taxes, I try to charge a fair price for the work I do (I am not intentionally low-balling anyone), the company I work for is strictly commercial/industrial so I am not stealing work from my employer, in fact I have passed on some leads that have worked out to be pretty good commercial accounts for us!
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You obviously haven't read this thread very carefully. I've said now at least twice that the rules in MA are very different from most states and "sidework" in MA reallly isn't the illegal sidework that we are talking about. I don't care if you do sidework legally in Mass. Like Scott says, if you are going to do it, charge accordingly.
 
EBFD6 said:
There is no such thing as a contractors lic. in MA.

Journeyman can pull permits and have one apprentice, Masters can hire journeyman and one apprentice per journeyman.

My having a Master lic. is actually not required because I work alone or sometimes with one helper, which would be allowed in MA with only a journeyman lic.

So to answer your question I am not looking for special treatment, just a reasonable income, and the right to practice the craft for which I am fully qualified and legally allowed to do.


The fact that I choose to work for a company has more to do with the fact that I enjoy doing commercial and industrial service work, which I feel would not be a possibility if I worked for myself full time. I do residential side work and do not particularly enjoy crawling around other peoples attics, rolling around in blown-in insulation, but I need the money!

It is what it is!
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Are you required to pay unemployment insurance & workers compensation in MA?
 
Missing the Point

Missing the Point

The most certain way to stop "side work", Handy men, Jack legs is to limit the availability to purchase supplies. When was the last time a common citizen walked into a store or suppier and bought refrigeration equipment?
If a lisence is required in an area, city, county or state to do the work, then it should be required to purchase the material. Just like refrigeration.
 
bigjohn67 said:
The most certain way to stop "side work", Handy men, Jack legs is to limit the availability to purchase supplies. When was the last time a common citizen walked into a store or suppier and bought refrigeration equipment?
If a lisence is required in an area, city, county or state to do the work, then it should be required to purchase the material. Just like refrigeration.
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Almost all suppliers will sell to anyone these days. I've been to refrigeration and plumbing suppliers and bought things related to our work like thermostats and contactors for condensing units- no questions asked. Supply stores want sales- they don't care who buys the stuff.
 
peter d said:
Almost all suppliers will sell to anyone these days. I've been to refrigeration and plumbing suppliers and bought things related to our work like thermostats and contactors for condensing units- no questions asked. Supply stores want sales- they don't care who buys the stuff.
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I think he's referring to freon. And it's licensed not becuase of any potential of someone doing 'side' work... it's an environmental issue.
 
EBFD6 said:
I just don't understand the animosity on this subject. You guys make it out to be that everyone who does side work is working illegally. There is nothing illegal about what I do. I am properly licensed, insured, pull permits, pay taxes, I try to charge a fair price for the work I do (I am not intentionally low-balling anyone), the company I work for is strictly commercial/industrial so I am not stealing work from my employer, in fact I have passed on some leads that have worked out to be pretty good commercial accounts for us!

Some in this thread seem to think that because someone is not willing to risk it all by going into business full time that we are scum bags dragging the whole industry down. I am going to work for myself in the future, as for right now I am using the experience I am getting from doing side work (business experience, not electrical experience) as a tool to learn how to run a business, bid work effectively and not have to risk foreclosure on my house because I screwed up pricing on a couple of jobs and lost my shirt.

Maybe you think I'm taking advantage of my boss by using him as a security blanket and getting a guaranteed paycheck while I do work on the side nights and weekends, but the way I see it when he hired me I promised him an honest 40 hours of quality work every week (which he gets), and he promised me a 40 hour paycheck every week (which I get). I do not see the problem.

Yes, there are guys out there who do work unlicensed, don't pull permits, and do service changes for $800, but don't put me in that same category.

There are a few guys in here who need to get down off their soap box and think back to what it was like when they were trying to start out on their own. Everyone has to start somewhere and I will not jump blindly into full time self employment until I can limit the risk a little by gaining some more experience w/ bidding jobs and making a profit, and the only way to do that is by doing side work, work full time for someone else for some guaranteed money, and try and put away as much money as I can to make my goal a reality and be able to fund a business. I do realize that running a business is expensive, time consuming, and requires a lot of dedication and I hope I can prepare myself the best I can to try and limit some of the risk.
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NJ doesn't have the get out of jail free card like MA does...there are other ways to learn the ropes and to go about it....
 
emahler said:
NJ doesn't have the get out of jail free card like MA does...there are other ways to learn the ropes and to go about it....
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What kind of answer is that?

The fact is neither NJ nor MA is the center of the universe and each area does things there own way.
 
bigjohn67 said:
The most certain way to stop "side work", Handy men, Jack legs is to limit the availability to purchase supplies. When was the last time a common citizen walked into a store or suppier and bought refrigeration equipment?
If a lisence is required in an area, city, county or state to do the work, then it should be required to purchase the material. Just like refrigeration.
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That is highly Un-American...and rather ridiculous as well.

I take you have never ever done anything in your own home that requires licensing which you do not have.
 
bigjohn67 said:
The most certain way to stop "side work"...
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LOL.

There is NO, and I repeat NO way to stop "sidework" from happening.
It can be *limited* by restrictions but that still won't stop it.
And limiting it is as far as you can expect to go.

If we limit the discussion to work done by reasonably competent people who have the skills and tools to be (or are) employed by an EC (and are actually legally ok in some states) then the question and the solution is based in how EMPLOYERS are dealing with these people. (That is a big hint btw)

As for the competent guys who can't be employed by an EC for some reason would you rather have them collecting welfare?

As for the incompetent... Darwin will get them eventually.

And I will repeat the point I made earlier in this thread (and in others)...
The small/upstart (with lic/ins etc) one truck EC is a MUCH larger problem than the guys in station wagons.


(FTR: In principle I fully support the right of anyone to give business a try. I just think that far far too many of them won't do better for themselves and most will end up financially hurt by the effort.)
 
iwire said:
What kind of answer is that?

The fact is neither NJ nor MA is the center of the universe and each area does things there own way.
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i don't know of any state other than ma that allows people to legally do sidework....nj doesn't....they are just the 2 states i used as an example....

the rest of his argument is the same one people use to defend illegal immigrants....and it smacks the face of everyone who has followed their states laws and legally became a contractor....

the op i was referring to is in ma, and apparently followin the laws...i was pointing out that not all states allow what he is doing...

is that better? (peter, i'm never gonna catch upto your points:D)
 
emahler said:
i don't know of any state other than ma that allows people to legally do sidework....nj doesn't....
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I assume many states allow people to have second means of income.

What do you see as the 'illegal' part of side work?
 
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