Smoking
- Thread starter brian john
- Start date
- Status
bikeindy
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis IN
Smart $ said:
ALL brought on by yourself by beginning to smoke at all. You forgot how many smokers have been killed in cars as they first burned themself then trying to put themself out they drive into an innocent non smoker killing them too. I don't care if you smoke but there is one simple truth to it... it is ignorant and stopping is not that hard for most people who have just a wee bit of self control. I love how smokers try to tell people how productive they are there is no smoker in the world who can make up all the time lost by going on break after break after break to slowly kill themselves. I wonder if you wear seatbelts? Or wear PPE while at work? You know some people like meth and have the same excusses you have for not quitting.
I think you should smoke before you reply so that you have plenty of concentration.
Last edited:
jem.nola
Member
- Location
- New Orleans, Louisiana
In my opinion, from my experience of industrial, commercial, marine and residential electrical, is that it all depends on the structure of the job. In industrial with 200 or 300 electricians or large commercial with 20 or 30 or so electricians, rules are much more strict than a small commercial or residential job where one would have a little more leanacy. It all depends on the job, but one thing for certain is to have priorities in tact and have the rules laid out from day one. Smoke or not smoke, smoke yes, but where, when.
I feel that following the rules of the contractor and or journeyman is just as much a part of the job as in making sure the wires are the right size. I was a smoker once but quit 3 years ago, and not smoking was an easy one. If one doesn't get paid then how would they pay for them.
As for T&M, I try to explain to others (especially apprentices) a scenario that they can relate to. How many times do we bring our vehicles to the mechanics shop to have repairs done to them and they charge the usual 40 to 60 dollars an hour to do the work. After a few hours and the clock running we stop by and see the mechanic standing outside the garage smoking a cigarette, we wouldn't like to see our money coming out of pockets like that and neither do the customers who are paying the tab. That at times put things into perspective and the point gets across.
Is smoking that important that it becomes more like an entitlement than a privelage?
I feel that following the rules of the contractor and or journeyman is just as much a part of the job as in making sure the wires are the right size. I was a smoker once but quit 3 years ago, and not smoking was an easy one. If one doesn't get paid then how would they pay for them.
As for T&M, I try to explain to others (especially apprentices) a scenario that they can relate to. How many times do we bring our vehicles to the mechanics shop to have repairs done to them and they charge the usual 40 to 60 dollars an hour to do the work. After a few hours and the clock running we stop by and see the mechanic standing outside the garage smoking a cigarette, we wouldn't like to see our money coming out of pockets like that and neither do the customers who are paying the tab. That at times put things into perspective and the point gets across.
Is smoking that important that it becomes more like an entitlement than a privelage?
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
I only read a page or two...then I put my two cents in
I only read a page or two...then I put my two cents in
I haven't always been a non-smoker. I am now. Don't remember how long it's been.
Before I made my way into the business of electricity I climbed the ladder at restaurants. Our rules usually allowed an employee to smoke on his/her break. Most of the time we allowed them an extra 5 minutes here and there to have a smoke break between regualr breaks; depending on how busy it was or how quickly they completed their duties. The catch was, they had to smoke out of sight from our customers. Who wants to watch their food being handled by a kid fresh off a smoke break?
Since I quit smoking I do my best to discourage my peers from smoking while trying to avoid sounding like one of those Cigarette Nazi's that most new non-smokers turn into.
Meanwhile I had business cards made up that specifically said I was a "Non-Smoking Contractor" because I work for myself and don't have any employees. Therefore it was a statement I could make and a promise I could keep.
Although I fully support the freedoms of individuals I realize that there are some customers out there that would appreciate hiring a contractor that wouldn't waste time smoking or throwing his butts in the homeowner's garden.
In Massachusetts most contractors have no qualms with polluting their customers yard because most customers will simply put up with it.
Since I don't employ anybody, obviously I am not employing any smokers. Therefore I can hold true to my non-smoking claim. Unfortunately if I want to hire somebody I have to hire a non-smoker (and risk discrimination issues) or discontinue claiming to be a non-smoking contractor since my very reason for announcing it will dissipate if I have an employee who smokes.
I only read a page or two...then I put my two cents in
I haven't always been a non-smoker. I am now. Don't remember how long it's been.
Before I made my way into the business of electricity I climbed the ladder at restaurants. Our rules usually allowed an employee to smoke on his/her break. Most of the time we allowed them an extra 5 minutes here and there to have a smoke break between regualr breaks; depending on how busy it was or how quickly they completed their duties. The catch was, they had to smoke out of sight from our customers. Who wants to watch their food being handled by a kid fresh off a smoke break?
Since I quit smoking I do my best to discourage my peers from smoking while trying to avoid sounding like one of those Cigarette Nazi's that most new non-smokers turn into.
Meanwhile I had business cards made up that specifically said I was a "Non-Smoking Contractor" because I work for myself and don't have any employees. Therefore it was a statement I could make and a promise I could keep.
Although I fully support the freedoms of individuals I realize that there are some customers out there that would appreciate hiring a contractor that wouldn't waste time smoking or throwing his butts in the homeowner's garden.
In Massachusetts most contractors have no qualms with polluting their customers yard because most customers will simply put up with it.
Since I don't employ anybody, obviously I am not employing any smokers. Therefore I can hold true to my non-smoking claim. Unfortunately if I want to hire somebody I have to hire a non-smoker (and risk discrimination issues) or discontinue claiming to be a non-smoking contractor since my very reason for announcing it will dissipate if I have an employee who smokes.
It was my choice to start. It is my choice to continue. It will be my choice when to quit... if I'm that lucky, the way things are going. AND no the symptoms mentioned are not brought upon by myself. I don't have those symptoms when I can smoke. I will only bring the symptoms on myself when I choose to quit. Until then, it is someone else bringing it on, and they need to step up and take responsibility for their actions.bikeindy said:
"Hey! Take one for the team... it's better for you in the long run." Yeah, right. You're barking up the wrong tree... I'd rather have a shorter, more enjoyable lifespan than live a longer, more miserable one for the likes of others.
Well I have to admit, it is not at the forefront of my thoughts :grin: but now that you've mentioned it, I also have to admit I have thought about it on occasion. Offhand I'd say the mortality rate from such an event probably comes in somewhere after deaths caused by a driver falling asleep at the wheel.bikeindy said:
Sometimes the bearing of facts have to be put in proper context before their meaningfulness can truly be recognized. Anti-smoking hype uses the same out-of-context tactic to sway popular opinion... and it is quite successful because of the ignorance of non-smokers to ALL the facts.
There is not one thing ignorant about me smoking. I'm quite educated on the matter. Yes quitting does take some self control. However, making the decision to do so has to come first. I have yet to make that decision.bikeindy said:
I believe most smokers take smoke breaks because they are not permitted to smoke where the work is. I'd be willing to bet most smokers would not take such breaks if they could smoke where they are working. If y'all are so worried about the lost time from smokers taking smoke breaks, why don't you just stand up for smoker's rights and get back to work :grin:bikeindy said:
As for killing oneself slowly, we all (as in non-smokers, too) do that in one form or another, whether you like to admit it or not. Some by overeating. Some by what they choose to eat. Some by not getting enough excercise. Some do just with their attitude. There are other forms of killing oneself slowly... and combinations of methods to kill oneself slowly. It's a fact from the point of conception that you will die one day. What's your poison? I like to put happiness at the top of my list.
My sister is an in-home health care professional (btw, she smokes, too). One of her smoking clients just died recently. "He smoked like a chimney", she said. He killed himself so slowly he lived to be 106 years of age at death.
Well, you can quit wondering because I do... and I've worked in environments that no amount of PPE would protect me if a catastrophic accident should occur. I wouldn't even have had time to kiss my butt goodbye. But if I wanted to be totally safe, I would have stayed at home. Nonetheless, injury at and for work, especially for the financial gains of someone not taking the physical risk, is not on my list of how I want to die.bikeindy said:
That's why it's called an addiction. Doesn't matter whether it is induced by a narcotic or simply self-will, or both, it's still an addiction. But society tends to assign different words to the severity of the addiction. Let's see, we have a good habit vs just a habit vs a bad habit... to the newest "dependency" and beyond. Mind and/or body, it's an addiction regardless of what you call it. You like a certain genre of music, it's an addiction. Overeating is an addiction (another one I have :grin: )... but you don't see any "no overeating" signs at your favorite buffet...bikeindy said:
Thank you for being so considerate...!bikeindy said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Smart $ said:
So we should blame the rules not the person.
Intresting...:roll:
Monday I will wear sneakers instead of boots.
Hey Boss it's not my fault your rules require boots.
No, not the rule... blame the person or persons that made the [so-called] rule.iwire said:
That don't even compare. Though I'm not advising you to do so, should you really, really want to sneakers to work, you'd be facing the same dilemma, but only in part, that I face going to work for an employer that has a no-smoking policy. Now if you are willing to wear boots for the sake of employment, no problemo. If you aren't willing...iwire said:
FrancisDoody
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, CT
No smoking period
No smoking period
I work for a large company with thousands of employees all over the world. The policy at Lockheed Martin is no smoking at all. Not in your car parked in the parking lot. Not on any property owned or leased by LM. No exceptions. No excuses. You must decide just how important smoking is to you. Do you need the job? You can always find work somewhere else if you like to smoke. Just not here at Lockheed.
No smoking period
I work for a large company with thousands of employees all over the world. The policy at Lockheed Martin is no smoking at all. Not in your car parked in the parking lot. Not on any property owned or leased by LM. No exceptions. No excuses. You must decide just how important smoking is to you. Do you need the job? You can always find work somewhere else if you like to smoke. Just not here at Lockheed.
So, am I to surmise you have never driven faster than the speed limit?roger said:I guess a car hijacker could use the defense, "It's not fair, I wouldn't be in trouble for shooting somebody and taking their car if it wasn't against the law" It's the lawmakers fault.
Roger
tallgirl
Senior Member
- Location
- Glendale, WI
- Occupation
- Controls Systems firmware engineer
Smart $ said:
Is this the "Breaking the law is okay because the laws get in the way of my life" defense?
Look -- your excuses are bordering on comical. You really can quit any time you want, put up with all the those horrible symptoms for about 2 or 3 weeks, and then be done with it for the rest of your life.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Smart $ said:
Well this is America and right now the majority (or maybe the loud minority) seems to want these anti smoking rules or laws. As long as they are in place we all must follow them or accept personal responsibility for the consequences of breaking them.
Sure they do.
The work boots are required for my safety and health. Reduced accidents saves the employer money. Your not smoking on their time also saves them money.
Smart$, you are 'smart' enough to be able to read the signs, the smokers have lost this issue for the foreseeable future.
Your ability to smoke where you want, when you want, is for better or worse going to disappear.
- Location
- Massachusetts
tallgirl said:
Look at that...Julie and I agree on something.
Did I mention anything about me breaking the law?tallgirl said:
I don't make excuses. I provide reasons. If it is not what you want to hear that's your problem. I'm glad you and iwire both can get a good chuckle out of my discontent, you inconsiderate #$^@_*&$tallgirl said:
...And you can say that after having smoked for how many years?tallgirl said:
I have never said I could not quit. I have have made it plainly clear that I do not want to quit.
Don't even bother "talking" to me until you can do so with a true voice of wisdom, or at the very least identical experience... and to have smoked for 30 years would not do it.
Smart $ said:
Heck no, sure I have, but you won't find me whining and sniffling about laws and rules that I'm required to follow even if I am held accountable when I break one.
You also won't find me blaming the majority for making rules and laws because I think I am special and should be allowed the right to offend or endanger others.
Now, don't go using the "I make it a point to not offend others with my smoking, I go outside blah, blah, blah." you will be talking to one that used the same argument.
The truth is you stink when you walk into a room, I knew it when I smoked and now I see how bad from a non-smokers clean sense of smell when smokers walk into a meeting room or my office.
Julie,
I also agree. :grin:
Roger
- Location
- Massachusetts
Smart $ said:
And you have the true voice of wisdom?
Call them reasons, call them excuses either way your posts in this thread, compared to the normal well thought out and hard to dispute posts you normally make on this forum are lame.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
There are some companies that will not employ a person that smokes. Not even on their own time at home. In return their cost to provide health insurance is reduced. Their random drug tests include screening for smoking and multiple failures result in job loss. The first to do this were some large fire department as under the work comp laws for fire fighters, all heart and lung problems are classified as work related. It is slowly spreading to other employers.
Don
Don
Smart $ said:
Why did you bring speeding to the table then?
I guess this is another case of the majority here seeing it different than you do.
Of course you think that is the case, defending ones self is always going anything but excuses.
So now you are going to start calling others names.
In my case 32.
Yeah, I always said that too.
Read my last two sentences.
Roger
Permitting me to smoke where I work would have the same effect. Wearing sneakers where you work would not.iwire said:
So an employer has a no-smoking on the job policy is looking out for my interests in what way? And you want me to concern myself with their bottom line? Yeah, like that's gonna happen :roll:
Most likely so. Time will tell...iwire said:
- Status