Taped Wirenuts

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iwire said:
Marc, are those instructions in fact 'included in the listing' of the fixture?

I doubt it, and if they are not 'included in the listing' then the instructions are just suggestions. :smile:
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I really don't have any idea what "included in the listing" really means. I've never read much of anything in the UL White Book that even remotely resembles any sort of instruction. The UL Marking Guide for Luminaries has a tiny bit.
 
iwire said:
It's moot becuse you decided it's moot? :confused:
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Think about the statement you made in an earlier post "Tape will not repair a bad splice". Do you honestly think that anyone on the planet even remotely capable of thinking would make a bad splice and intentionally try to "repair" it with tape. This is a non-starter and doesn't qualify as a talking point IMO. But if you want we can discuss this, too.


iwire said:
What are you trying to acomplish with the tape? :-? :)
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There are those who believe that a correctly fastened wirenut connection is a slightly better connection by the addition of tape protecting the connection as it is formed and shaped back into the box during devicing.
 
mdshunk said:
I really don't have any idea what "included in the listing" really means.
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I have to agree.

What the heck does it mean and I have also tried to find the answer in the white book...no help at all.

Basically I assume a label on the unit with items like voltage, current, location restrictions are covered by 110.3(B)

I don't believe instructions like you posted are. I really doubt instructions like 6, 7 and 9 would be included in the listing.

All that said.....I really do not know.:mad:
 
iwire said:
What the heck does it mean and I have also tried to find the answer in the white book...no help at all.
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I don't happen to live in a very litigious area, but for those who do, they'd be well advised to follow manufacturer's instructions as best they can. I understand that forensic electrical engineers can be brutal after fires and accidents.
 
wbalsam1 said:
Do you honestly think that anyone on the planet even remotely capable of thinking would make a bad splice and intentionally try to "repair" it with tape.
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Yes, I see it all the time, they make a questionable splice and add tape to cover it up and hold it together.


I also think that is basically what you are saying here.


There are those who believe that a correctly fastened wire nut connection is a slightly better connection by the addition of tape protecting the connection as it is formed and shaped back into the box during devicing.
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You not trying to 'fix it' your just trying to 'make it better'.

So tell me, how does tape make it better?

I am willing to accept tape may be beneficial in a motor box.....but then the question becomes about the use of wire nuts for that in the first place. :)
 
mdshunk said:
I don't happen to live in a very litigious area, but for those who do, they'd be well advised to follow manufacturer's instructions as best they can.
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That has some truth to it, no doubt it is a good point.

I try not to work with that fear as we all can be sued for anything at any time even when we do everything right. Who ends up prevailing is a roll of the dice and often becomes a moot point. :roll:
 
iwire said:
I am not saying that anyone has to stop doing any taping or change what makes them happy about the work they leave behind

I am trying to make people examine what they do so they can decide if they want to keep doing things simply because they have 'always done it that way'.
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And thank you for that, in the couple of mounths that I have been participating in this forum I have learned quite a few things that I have been doing "just because", that I have never really thought about, just do things a certain way because that's how I was taught. Some things have been just bad habits and some have been out right code violations! I think that this is exactly what this forum is for, intelligent discussions that make us all think about what we are doing and why instead of just being on auto-pilot all the time.

Over the past few months I have re-evaluated my career situation and changed my attitude from one of "just put in 8hrs and get paid", to now I have decided that, if I'm gonna do this for the rest of my career, I need to make a commitment to myself to learn as much as I can technically and code wise and try and be in the upper level of electricians. I would like to thank everyone on this forum who is willing to make the same commitment and through intelligent topic discussions we can all learn and grow better together.

Thank you!
 
And of course, macmikeman, steps in with a completely different outlook. While I seldom tape wirenuts, I wish that there were a code requirement for taping a certain type of wirenut. The hard plastic ones, sold for many many years by a certain very large industry leader wirenut company I am not going to name. I have come across thousands that have cracked in half and either fell off, or are about to. In commercial buildings it can be hazardous just removing a cover from a j-box when that type was used and not taped up. And not always due to lousy connecting on the part of the original installer. Many times the wires were twisted up together all nice and tight, with the internal wirenut spring still around the ends of the conductors, but the two halves of the plastic part laying on the bottom of the j-box. Now I am not charging that allways this is the case, but often enough. I bet I am not the only one here who has seen this before.
 
Do you honestly think that anyone on the planet even remotely capable of thinking would make a bad splice and intentionally try to "repair" it with tape.
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Yes, Yes, Yes and HECK YES

Tape can result in a gooey mess and is not necessary and IMO a sign of a overly cautious guy (no problem there) he wears suspenders with a belt, or a sloppy installer.
 
When ever I come across taped wirenuts I know someone being doing electric who shouldn't be, A sure sign of worse things ahead.
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Yup.


I will occaisionally tape a wirenut in an underground jb.

Sometimes a tough situation like a reworked splice involving max wires, some solid are bent/ some stranded, I will start the nut, tape the wires below the nut to help hold them together and then finish tightening the nut.
 
Why does anyone think wire nuts are poor workmanship? I don't tape to back up my twist, it's just an extra measure. I ALWAYS, ALWAYS tape when going from solid to stranded.
I'm out of this thread. It's all just a matter of opinion and workmanship.

Sorry about anybody's sticky fingers.
 
76nemo said:
It's all just a matter of opinion and workmanship.
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I never said it was poor workmanship, I have only said it makes me suspect it before I start opening up the tape.

I am also interested to know how the tape adds to the workmanship.

Just the fact it is an extra step does mean it is a better job..
 
iwire said:
I never said it was poor workmanship, I have only said it makes me suspect it before I start opening up the tape.

I am also interested to know how the tape adds to the workmanship.

Just the fact it is an extra step does mean it is a better job..
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You mean you could possibly assume when you see tape, someone just put together two wires, capped them without twisting them and then taped???

Look, it is just a personal preference, and basically just another little step on MY work ethic. That's why I say I am outta here, this question is NOT theory related. This is just a personal opinion post. I won't knock anyone for taping properly as long as the time comes out of their own wallet. With me working alone, it does. I like doing it, therefore I do it. I didn't say "I do it, and so should you."

It's all opinion, in either way, I see it harmless. All in all, pretty good discussion, I just don't think anyone that uses tape is questionable. Now the guy who wired his house with C cord? That's a little different;)

Tape, or no tape, "THANK YOU GUYS/GALS for ALL of your services. Great forum, great group, good insights!!!!!

Stay safe!!!
 
  • I don't do it therefore it's wrong and my "belittler" must activate
  • I don't agree therefore it's stupid
  • I don't understand it so I'd better knock it
  • When I'm falsely educated about something I must default to being afraid of it..False Education Appearing Real
  • Things of little extrinsic value that cannot readily be assimilated must be of little intrinsic value, too
I'll just go ahead and use tape whenever I wire again and suffer the alienation concomitant with such errant behavior. :rolleyes:
 
wbalsam1 said:
  • I don't do it therefore it's wrong and my "belittler" must activate
  • I don't agree therefore it's stupid
  • I don't understand it so I'd better knock it
  • When I'm falsely educated about something I must default to being afraid of it..False Education Appearing Real
  • Things of little extrinsic value that cannot readily be assimilated must be of little intrinsic value, too
I'll just go ahead and use tape whenever I wire again and suffer the alienation concomitant with such errant behavior. :rolleyes:
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I had to laugh with that one. Someone told me fail, was "First Attempt In Learning." I pondered that for quite awhile :cool:
 
wbalsam1 said:
  • I don't do it therefore it's wrong and my "belittler" must activate
  • I don't agree therefore it's stupid
  • I don't understand it so I'd better knock it
  • When I'm falsely educated about something I must default to being afraid of it..False Education Appearing Real
  • Things of little extrinsic value that cannot readily be assimilated must be of little intrinsic value, too
I'll just go ahead and use tape whenever I wire again and suffer the alienation concomitant with such errant behavior. :rolleyes:
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I dont want anyone to be upset, but I never understood why people take comments so hard here?
 
stickboy1375 said:
I dont want anyone to be upset, but I never understood why people take comments so hard here?
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It's hard to gauge facial expression, intonation, and voice inflection when reading only what it typed. We're not journalists, after all, so what is written can sometimes seem more harsh than it actually was ever intended.
 
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