Too many outlets

[infinity]

Without looking at the rest of post here, my calculation was a max of 65 receptacles plus additional if you have an island counter, plus a few additional more required for the kitchen wall counter

For a dwelling your use of 180 VA per receptacle is incorrect.

 

[Jpflex]

For a dwelling your use of 180 VA per receptacle is incorrect.

My electrical calculations book for residential dwelling shows this as the way to check the number of receptacles allowed per circuit

I did not make this up and were not using 180 va per receptacle for commercial purpose

 

[ptonsparky]

My electrical calculations book for residential dwelling shows this as the way to check the number of receptacles allowed per circuit

I did not make this up and were not using 180 va per receptacle for commercial purpose

It’s incorrect.

 

[infinity]

My electrical calculations book for residential dwelling shows this as the way to check the number of receptacles allowed per circuit

I did not make this up and were not using 180 va per receptacle for commercial purpose

The book is wrong. Dwellings are calculated by VA per square foot to determine the number of circuits. 180 VA is not applicable in any way to the dwelling calculation.

 

[letgomywago]

My electrical calculations book for residential dwelling shows this as the way to check the number of receptacles allowed per circuit

I did not make this up and were not using 180 va per receptacle for commercial purpose

The receptacles in a dwelling for the most part are "lighting outlets" even the bathroom receptacle is in this portion although minimum size for it is 20a and is doesn't cover a large square footage

 

[Jpflex]

The book is wrong. Dwellings are calculated by VA per square foot to determine the number of circuits. 180 VA is not applicable in any way to the dwelling calculation.

TOTAL VA load for dwelling is outside diameter sq ft x 3 VA

So calculating the number of 20 ampere circuits would still be:

Total square feet x 3 VA / 120 x 20 branch circuit

However, after looking at my book it says that determining the number of receptacles allowed on one circuit would be 120 x 20 / 180 VA for NON DWELLINGS so you are right

Which means besides the 6 -12 foot spacing requirements I guess I do not know how many receptacles can be placed on a 120 v x 20 i = 2400 VA branch circuit for dwellings?

Does anybody know?

 

[ptonsparky]

TOTAL VA load for dwelling is outside diameter sq ft x 3 VA

So calculating the number of 20 ampere circuits would still be:

Total square feet x 3 VA / 120 x 20 branch circuit

However, after looking at my book it says that determining the number of receptacles allowed on one circuit would be 120 x 20 / 180 VA for NON DWELLINGS so you are right

Which means besides the 6 -12 foot spacing requirements I guess I do not know how many receptacles can be placed on a 120 v x 20 i = 2400 VA branch circuit for dwellings?

Does anybody know?

As many as you want. Local laws
may apply.

 

[Jpflex]

As many as you want. Local laws
may apply.

So why then is the inspector failing this inspection for receptacle count?

 

[ptonsparky]

So why then is the inspector failing this inspection for receptacle count?

We don’t know. No reference has been given as far as we know. He may not know other than it just doesn’t look right.

 

[infinity]

So why then is the inspector failing this inspection for receptacle count?

My guess is that they don't know this code section very well and are confusing it with non-dwelling requirements.

 

[rc/retired]

So why then is the inspector failing this inspection for receptacle count?

No one here can answer that question. I suggest you print this thread and show your inspector or invite him/her to join the site.

Ron

 

[Fred B]

While I agree with those that are stating for a dwelling unit all you have to calculate for the TOTAL load is the 3VA per sq ft. But also agree with @Jpflex how do you calculate how many receptacles are placed on a single 20A branch circuit if you don't use the 180VA per strap? (Understanding that it is not code requirement but used as a guide.)

As many as you want. Local laws
may apply.

So for a dwelling you you would only provide the 2 kitchen, 1 laundry, 1 bath, then 150 receptacles on 1 more circuit.

 

[ptonsparky]

While I agree with those that are stating for a dwelling unit all you have to calculate for the TOTAL load is the 3VA per sq ft. But also agree with @Jpflex how do you calculate how many receptacles are placed on a single 20A branch circuit if you don't use the 180VA per strap? (Understanding that it is not code requirement but used as a guide.)

So for a dwelling you you would only provide the 2 kitchen, 1 laundry, 1 bath, then 150 receptacles on 1 more circuit.

You wanna be low bid...be low bid. Those AFCIs are expensive.

IDK anyone that would do it. I suspect you don't either.
I think even the largest home I wired, way back when, could easily function on one lighting circuit with LED lamps. Not suggesting that either.

 

[Fred B]

Convenience and practicality says even in the kitchen that adding more than the Min circuits prevents being called in the middle of the evening of holiday, because when they are having a party it keeps tripping the breaker from all the crock pots running. (Had that exact thing happen when conceding to "just the minimum" then they start using a lot of plug-in appliances at the same time and tripping the breaker.)
Then also adding more than 1 or 2 lighting circuits, for convenience and somewhat for safety, if the "only one breaker" trips - total darkness.

Thus I do limit the total number of receptacles to the 180VA per for the circuits. Not a code requirement issue (residential) but seems to be good practice.

 

[winnie]

IMHO an alternative reasonable practice for general purpose receptacles in a residence is to first calculate how many separate circuits are needed to supply the 3VA per square foot number, and then evenly distribute those circuits.

Jon

 

[LarryFine]

To me, this is all a design issue. It would be too easy for a maximum quantity or minimum distance to be specified in the NEC if such limits existed. If we have to surmise them, they're not real rules.

 

[qcroanoke]

To me, this is all a design issue. It would be too easy for a maximum quantity or minimum distance to be specified in the NEC if such limits existed. If we have to surmise them, they're not real rules.

Yep. To me what I consider adequate could be overkill to one and woefully inadequate to another person. That's where the code comes in.

 

[letgomywago]

While I agree with those that are stating for a dwelling unit all you have to calculate for the TOTAL load is the 3VA per sq ft. But also agree with @Jpflex how do you calculate how many receptacles are placed on a single 20A branch circuit if you don't use the 180VA per strap? (Understanding that it is not code requirement but used as a guide.)

So for a dwelling you you would only provide the 2 kitchen, 1 laundry, 1 bath, then 150 receptacles on 1 more circuit.

In WA you need to calculate the square footage that is covered by the lighting calc so 1 circuit per 600ft^2 or so. This is incredibly light and the only time I've been close is in mcmansions that have huge great rooms of nothing. Those are the closest because they have 2 circuits for 12 receptacles and still are that light.

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

Greetings,

I have a project as a single family home 3300 sq ft, 4 bedroom two story. The owner has about 160 outlets. The outlet loads are not considered in service sizing as we have 3 VA/Sq Ft for both lighting and receptacle per NEC 220. We have a 400 A service panel and except the receptacle number, everything else looks normal.
But the city inspector is not happy with the number of receptacle and he does not want to approve the work.

Is there any where in the code to limit the owner for the number of receptacle that a person can put in a house?

Thank you in advance.

It looses some of it meaning when you add recptical in front of outlet.

Tulsa has an amendment which is why out dated. They still use the word outlets. I just laugh and say sure.
For both commerical and residential.

NEC 2023 Section 210.11 (A) (B) Branch Circuits Required, How many 15 or 20 amp branch circuits did you calculate when you did the math for the square footage per VA? (B) Load Evenly Proportioned Among Branch Circuits, it's up to the licensed electrician to " make sure they are evenly proportioned among multioutlet branch circuits within the panelboard(s").

 

[retirede]

NEC 2023 Section 210.11 (A) (B) Branch Circuits Required, How many 15 or 20 amp branch circuits did you calculate when you did the math for the square footage per VA? (B) Load Evenly Proportioned Among Branch Circuits, it's up to the licensed electrician to " make sure they are evenly proportioned among multioutlet branch circuits within the panelboard(s").

That section dictates how many branch circuits are required and how loads are distributed. It has nothing to do with how many receptacle outlets should be installed.