Troubleshoot This

[masterinbama]

One wire over fill in a J box. Or splices made in an LB

 

[jrannis]

Checking breakers or fuses to ground doesnt usually give you much good data.
Let me know what you have L1 to L2

 

[gar]

080814-0558 EST

If this truely is a single phase panel where the two hot buses alternate on each side of the panel, all breakers are good and closed, all breakers on the input side make good contact with the bus bars, all voltage measurements are made on the breaker output screw and not the wire, then whether the measurement is to ground or to neutral there has to be consistency in the readings which there is not.

All breakers when closed are a very low impedance compared to a load. Otherwise the breaker will trip. Therefore, all breakers connected to the same bus must have the same output voltage, or close to the same. If all the voltage measurements are simultaneous, then what is shown is not possible without some problem in the breakers, the buses, or the breaker connection to the buses.

2, 3, 6, and 7 should all be the same bus, and therefore all voltages would have to be the same, but are not.

2 and 8 should be opposite buses and sum to 240. That is OK and would imply an open neutral, but this is inconsistent with 3 and 4 having balanced readings.

Guessing at this point makes no sense.

The next step is knowing the ground to neutral voltage, and a picture of the bus structure. Then some other voltage and current measurements.

.

 

[TwinCitySparky]

I got it!






Allen Funt finally stepped out from behind the furnace with some wires and capacitors in his hand and said...


YOU'RE ON CANDID CAMERA!

:grin:

 

[kspifldorf]

As always, it's something you've already checked???:grin:

 

[hillbilly]

Caused by sun spots or other phenomenon?:smile:

steve

 

[DanZ]

Just a guess...

Just a guess...

I'm going to go with 480 doesn't know what the problem is, and is using this forum to generate ideas of things to check.

Or, the other classic, somewhere, something...is not right.:roll:

My final guess is, a HO or trunkslammer figured out a way to do something that makes no sense to anyone but him, and should be impossible to do.

 

[billsnuff]

5 MWBC w/one shared nuetral.......shoulda taped that wire nut.......oops, forgot, taped clockwise, of course.........

 

[220/221]

Was one of the #6 ground wires taped green?

 

[al hildenbrand]

5 MWBC w/one shared nuetral

I agree with the 5 MWBC.

2 & 8 . . . . . . . . . . .69.3 + 170.7 = 240.0
9 & 15 . . . . . . . . .17.7 + 222.3 = 240.0
18 & 24 . . . . . . . . .223.0 + 17.0 = 240.0
25 & 35 . . . . . . . . .191.7 + 48.3 = 240.0
28 & 34 . . . . . . . . .208.5 + 31.5 = 240.0

All those neutrals are loose from the service grounded conductor and loose from each other.

 

[K8MHZ]

Well, all I can say is that the first thing I would check would be the grounding and neutral bars to make sure they were properly bonded and all the wires had a good connection. I would also check for a voltage difference between the bars and the panel case.

Next I would turn breakers off and determine if the voltages on the remaining breakers changed or not.

If nothing enlightening showed up there, I would next remove the breakers with the strange voltages and check the voltage on the buss where the breaker connects to.

You also mention you checked voltage to ground. Was there a such difference in the voltage to neutrals?

I suspect a high impedance connection somewhere, most probably a neutral, the question is where it (or they) are located.

 

[ramsy]

I agree with the 5 MWBC.

2 & 8 . . . . . . . . . . .69.3 + 170.7 = 240.0
9 & 15 . . . . . . . . .17.7 + 222.3 = 240.0
18 & 24 . . . . . . . . .223.0 + 17.0 = 240.0
25 & 35 . . . . . . . . .191.7 + 48.3 = 240.0
28 & 34 . . . . . . . . .208.5 + 31.5 = 240.0

All those neutrals are loose from the service grounded conductor and loose from each other.

Al filled in the blanks for me, without giving the answer, but in honoring the informal culture here, I suspect he is toying with a lashing. Contractor fights happen here for giving free-bees to hacks that lurk in this public domain.

Regardless of some State's legal exception for small projects (handyman), giving more free rides to any unlicensed (hacks), regulated only by the honor system, remains a sore issue.

Those contractors from States that ban handyman exceptions and apprenticeship rejects, with unavoidable licensing fees, proof of insurance, experience, and taxes, may not feel the love for just anybody lurking on public domains.

 

[peter d]

Was one of the #6 ground wires taped green?

Maybe it was a green wire taped black????

 

[SiddMartin]

I had to read 10 pages of this expecting to finally get to the answer and it is still not here.

 

[peter d]

I had to read 10 pages of this expecting to finally get to the answer and it is still not here.

You're not the only one. :roll:

 

[electricalperson]

i wonder when ken will tell us. MWBC missing the neutral is a good guess too. but he did say all neutrals were tight

 

[220/221]

He said that they were all tight in the bus but he obviously left out the voltage to neutral readings. I'm sticking with the open neutral bus.


Either that or they were Seimans breakers in a Murray panel.

 

[electricalperson]

maybe someone installed two way swiches instead of 3 way switches and that caused the voltage problem

 

[bth0mas20]

Ive been following this thread since it started waiting for an anwser. Now Im lacking interest.

 

[1stYearElectrican]

I'm wondering how many appliances or devices the HO lost when he used #15, #25, #18, or #28 branch circuits??

Seems like a SERIES problem to me, would like to see an internal pic of the panel to throw a few more guesses at this.

Wonder if he checked the inside the walls for Lil rodent houses as they obviously have illegal taps



~FyE~