tyraps as emt support

[cschmid]

If that's the case, why not just use reinforced strapping tape, such as 3M Scotch Reinforced Strapping Tapes...

It is inexpensive :wink: and with tensile strength up to 240 lbs./in. width, you could even use it to support conduit to the bottom of trusses (2 wraps x 240 lb strength of 1-inch-wide 865 = 480 lbs.)

I dont see any where it says you could not use it..Bob opens up an interesting point about what is securely fastened into place..tyhe tape would securly fasten it into place..so does the tie wire..my question would be what is the life span of a ty-rap in an area where the ambient temps are 100 degrees or better..what is the life span of tape in that same inviroment given the 3 choices tie wire is the better of the three..Ican see the savings..so how does in a workman like manner play into it..is it the customer, the installer, the AHJ or who decides what is a workman like manner..so many questions...

 

[Flex]

crap is crap whether or not the customer likes it.

 

[peter d]

crap is crap whether or not the customer likes it.

In your opinion, which means absolutely nothing.

 

[JohnJ0906]

crap is crap whether or not the customer likes it.

Are you paying the difference out of YOUR pocket?

Some people want steak and lobster, some want hot dogs. Should the hot dog people just starve if they can't afford the surf and turf?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

In your opinion, which means absolutely nothing.

Peter
That is not exactly true...it means something to Flex.
It just may mean absolutely nothing to you.

Of course we are all allowed our opinion here.:wink:

 

[roger]

Flex, what's your opinion of my preferred method, tie wire?

Roger

 

[iwire]

crap is crap whether or not the customer likes it.

Flex seeing as you seem to know whats right and whats not, how about we find out about you?

Are you a worker or a boss?

Are you new in the trade or long time?

Just kind of curious, of course I already think I know the answers to those questions.

Anyone that thinks a customer should get more then they pay for is usually a worker, not a bill payer. :wink:

 

[cschmid]

Flex, what's your opinion of my preferred method, tie wire?

Roger

I have never thought of tie wire and it would survive the heat of a ceiling enclosure area..does it rust quickly or corrode in any form...

 

[cschmid]

crap is crap whether or not the customer likes it.

I have heard alot of this but have seen nothing to contribute to the conversation..please contribute more than just calling it crap..is it legal..is it good quality workmanship..give us some meat to chew on..

 

[haskindm]

crap is crap whether or not the customer likes it.

No, code is code. The only concern is, does it meet code. If you do not feel that tie wraps meet code, give your reasons and we can discuss. If you feel that the code should be changed to eliminate the use of tie wraps, submit a proposal. If you think another installation method is superior, you are welcome to say so. But be careful in assuming that the way you were taught is the "only" way or the "right" way and anything else is "crap"; you may miss out on better ways to do things with that attitude. Those that wire houses in Chicago using only raceway systems may feel that the use of NM cable is "crap", that does not make it wrong for us to use NM cable. It meets the code and customer expectations in our area. If EMT is run "on" the bar joists as the OP said, it is supported by the joist, it now only need to be "secured". The code does not explain how it should be secured, in fact I cannot find a NEC definition of secured. Webster defines it as "firm, stable". So if the EMT is supported by the bar joist and held in place by the tie wrap so it is "firm and stable" and the tie wrap is suitable for the environment in which it is installed - then the installation meets code, in my opinion. The final judgment will be made by the AHJ. If the AHJ does not agree, a code section should be given and a discussion can be held. The AHJ cannot say, that is "crap" change it.

 

[jnsane84]

SHOEMAKER??? And after all these years I find out that i'm not actually doing electrical work but I'm actually a Cobbler. Anybody need a new pair of work boots? :grin:

 

[cschmid]

I'll take mine in virgin leather with steel reinforced shanks and fiberglass toe supports and 8 inchs high..I would like them purple and gold..:grin:

these are free correct..I do not know if I can afford your prices maybe you can shave something off the bid..:grin:

You dont think this is something you can do at work in your spare time do ya..:grin:

 

[jim dungar]

I'll take mine in virgin leather with steel reinforced shanks and fiberglass toe supports and 8 inchs high..I would like them purple and gold.

Steel reinforced shanks would not be EH rated.

Purple and gold would be a waste of color, but Green and Gold would be okay.:wink: :wink:

 

[cschmid]

I know no EH rated but makes my feet feel better when using ladders..can I get the shank out of reinforced fiberglass.. :grin:

We can not have that color of green in our area, scares our children..purple calms them down and makes them smile..

dang you can it early am..

 

[jnsane84]

I know no EH rated but makes my feet feel better when using ladders..can I get the shank out of reinforced fiberglass.. :grin:

We can not have that color of green in our area, scares our children..purple calms them down and makes them smile..

dang you can it early am..

All colors are available in either micro-suede or high gloss patent leather. Other new features include platform soles with fish tank inserts and to ensure that your laces never slip back through the holes I've included a new patented boot lace end which consists of wirenuts wrapped with a generous portion of super 33+. Place your orders now and be the envy of your jobsite.:grin:

 

[barclayd]

Thought I'd weigh in with some questions.
Do tie-wraps really secure the conduit? Smooth metal conduit against a smooth metal bar joist with a smooth nylon ty-wrap. If I pull on the conduit will it slide? Will it move? Don't know - never did it that way.
I do know that the generic name of the product is CABLE TIE. That's CABLE, as in C*A*B*L*E.
Tie-Wire?? Wrapped around and twisted tight? Maybe a piece of #12 copper?
Strapping Tape?? Duct Tape?? Scotch 33?? Plane old Scotch Tape??
Don't we have to draw a line Somewhere??
358.30(B) implies that you can toss a dozen runs of emt up in one V of a bar joist and it's code-legal. Not sure I'd like that.
I think 1/2" emt is flexible enough to weave in and out ALONG a bar joist. Would THAT be legal?
How about them Velcro things the phone guys use on their cables? That's gotta be easier than ty-wraps.
Maybe that guy from POPIEL can invent a "Tube-Joister" or something.
db

 

[cschmid]

All colors are available in either micro-suede or high gloss patent leather. Other new features include platform soles with fish tank inserts and to ensure that your laces never slip back through the holes I've included a new patented boot lace end which consists of wirenuts wrapped with a generous portion of super 33+. Place your orders now and be the envy of your jobsite.:grin:

LMAO...:grin:

 

[76nemo]

Thought I'd weigh in with some questions.
Do tie-wraps really secure the conduit? Smooth metal conduit against a smooth metal bar joist with a smooth nylon ty-wrap. If I pull on the conduit will it slide? Will it move? Don't know - never did it that way.
I do know that the generic name of the product is CABLE TIE. That's CABLE, as in C*A*B*L*E.
Tie-Wire?? Wrapped around and twisted tight? Maybe a piece of #12 copper?
Strapping Tape?? Duct Tape?? Scotch 33?? Plane old Scotch Tape??
Don't we have to draw a line Somewhere??
358.30(B) implies that you can toss a dozen runs of emt up in one V of a bar joist and it's code-legal. Not sure I'd like that.
I think 1/2" emt is flexible enough to weave in and out ALONG a bar joist. Would THAT be legal?
How about them Velcro things the phone guys use on their cables? That's gotta be easier than ty-wraps.
Maybe that guy from POPIEL can invent a "Tube-Joister" or something.
db

Just keep in mind that the topic of this discussion is that the use of C*A*B*L*E ties is permitted, NOT a method of choice. That's the whole point behind this g*d-forsaken 8-page long thread:roll: If customer wants cheap, well, we must satisfy the customer AS LONG AS the install and methods are WITHIN the NEC.

 

[peter d]

Peter
That is not exactly true...it means something to Flex.
It just may mean absolutely nothing to you.

Of course we are all allowed our opinion here.:wink:

Sure, he can have an opinion, but not all opinions are correct. I happen to agree with the others who will build the job according to the budget, not what looks pretty so the electrician can admire his artwork and pat himself on the back.

 

[barclayd]

I'm not sure I agree that cable ties ARE permitted.
Given the absence of any NEC definitions for either 'supported' or 'securely fastened in place', we seem to be forced to adhere to the whims of the inspector. This forum seems to be evenly divided between thinking inspectors are either saints or morons.

Just because the code doesn't say you can't do it, does not necessarily imply approval. The code also does not say you can't poke somebody in the eye with a sharp stick.

To me, 'securely fanstened in place' means it ain't gonna move. You don't get that with a cable tie, or rebar tie wire.

I think most of this 8-page thread was devoted to admonishing FLEX for speaking his mind.

What ever happend to FLEX, anyway?

Is Velcro permitted?

db