Uf wire

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
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United States
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*
If the fixture is identified for the use and is installed per the instructions it is legal.

And you're right there is no danger, until a joint fails and you get a loose connection in close proximity to all that combustible building material.
You have a point regarding the joints. While I do not defend it, I can't figure out how the siding products get sold. Something like this will result in water getting in:



http://www.sears.com/builders-edge-...PM6021905805&gclid=CJXNou7O6s0CFYeUfgod7BwHgw
 

ActionDave

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min without traffic from wing
Occupation
wire pulling grunt
But in cases where no enclosure exists (flat vinyl with a hole) am I correct to say that its a wet location? The fixture does not actually seal against the vinyl mount.
If there is no junction box it is an illegal installation.
I agree, however it has demonstrated that no actual danger exists.
Do you put your seatbelt on because every time you drive your car you will have a wreck or do you put you seatbelt on to protect yourself if you have a wreck?
 

mbrooke

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United States
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If there is no junction box it is an illegal installation.

Do you put your seatbelt on because every time you drive your car you will have a wreck or do you put you seatbelt on to protect yourself if you have a wreck?

If. However how many homes are like this?
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
If. However how many homes are like this?
Re-read this:

Done in a lot of places still doesn't make it compliant.
We will always hear about the old k&t/ cloth nm jobs that had no jb for the front porch light and how nothing ever happened, but not so much about many fires that have likely resulted from such practice. On top of that how friggin' hard is it to install a jb for these lights in most houses? Why would someone not want to, besides sheer laziness?:happyno:


but how or why is no one stopping the selling of this product?
And where is the crisis?- nobody is forcing people to buy or forcing ec's to violate code and install this product.
 
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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Looks like the CMP wanted nothing to do with a change in the way things have been done for 100 years.

9-36 Log #3208 NEC-P09 Final Action: Reject
(314.15)
________________________________________________________________
Submitter: Matthew A. Piantedosi, The Cadmus Group, Inc.
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
In damp or wet locations, boxes, conduit bodies, and fittings shall be placed
or equipped so as to prevent moisture from entering or accumulating within the
box, conduit body, or fitting. Boxes, conduit bodies, and fittings in wet
locations shall be listed for use in wet locations. The interior of such box,
conduit body, or fitting shall be considered to be a wet location.

Substantiation: As an inspector of solar photovoltaic systems, I encounter
many outdoor enclosures that contain indoor twist-on wire connectors. These
connectors after several weeks will show signs of rust and corrosion, thus
compromising the integrity of the splice. The new addition to 314.15 would
coincide with Article 300.9 states “Where raceways installed in wet locations
abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet
location... “.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: This proposal would require that any device placed in a box,
conduit body, or fitting to be identified for use in a wet location.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12
_____________________________
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
You've never done a new build where the NM is pulled directly out of a hole in the plywood/siding and then the fixture goes over that?


http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2008/12/p_SCR_130_20.jpg

http://cdn1.tmbi.com/TFH/Projects/FH06MAY_MOUNTL_01.JPG
Seen that more often than not, especially on anything more than 20 years old. Proper way would be to cut it a sconce/wall round box after the siding block is on a j-box the connection. I'll freely admit the lights on this house are not done that way and Ive never lost a second's sleep over it, probably because those fixture wires are 18-22ga and are gonna poof before a fire, if they ever get overloaded from a 100W incandescent max load.

Back to OP's question, only once seen UF on an exterior sconce. Seen far more cloth 2 wire NM and old BX with crumbling insulation passing thru old, dry wood siding than NM thru vinyl/aluminum/hardieboard.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
Seen that more often than not, especially on anything more than 20 years old. Proper way would be to cut it a sconce/wall round box after the siding block is on a j-box the connection. I'll freely admit the lights on this house are not done that way and Ive never lost a second's sleep over it, probably because those fixture wires are 18-22ga and are gonna poof before a fire, if they ever get overloaded from a 100W incandescent max load.

Back to OP's question, only once seen UF on an exterior sconce. Seen far more cloth 2 wire NM and old BX with crumbling insulation passing thru old, dry wood siding than NM thru vinyl/aluminum/hardieboard.
If a connection goes bad wire size would not matter. It would still heat up if it became loose.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Has nobody here every installed an exterior panel on a home with nm going to it? I am surprised this is even a discussion. Nothing states the wire in an enclosure needs to be wet location but it does say wiring in a conduit on the exterior must be wet location.

Also--to the op-- let's watch the attitude
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Electrician
Any outdoor wiring needs to be rated for outdoor wet location and is a outdoor light and the wires in that outdoor box outdoors ? Goes to show you don't know what your talking about buddy
Sorry but, if the box is inside the wall (flush) it is not outdoors according to the NEC, see 220.12, it is part of the interior floor space. So, if we were to use your theory no wiring in an exterior wall could be NM.

Roger
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
You've never done a new build where the NM is pulled directly out of a hole in the plywood/siding and then the fixture goes over that?
In terms of being a violation, I agree. However it does not change the fact siding companies make products for this application, and the fact millions of none compliant institutions are not failing.

It is the responsibility of the EC to make sure that his/her installation is code compliant. Just because the inspector doesn't catch a code violation doesn't make it correct or acceptacle.

I have seen lots of exterior lights installed like you mentioned but the inspector is not required to remove fixture and check wiring on the final inspection. But if the the inspector were to see it for some reason I think it would fail.
 

SAP

Senior Member
Location
Fresno Ca
Wow.I have Been runing my roof air conditioners wrong this whole time,and my pad mounted condensers residential of course, don't for get Instahot water heater, And then there is the micro inverters, micros are the only time I have heard of a Inspecter call It a code violation using NM and it was only once
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
It is the responsibility of the EC to make sure that his/her installation is code compliant. Just because the inspector doesn't catch a code violation doesn't make it correct or acceptacle.

I have seen lots of exterior lights installed like you mentioned but the inspector is not required to remove fixture and check wiring on the final inspection. But if the the inspector were to see it for some reason I think it would fail.
If inspector required box installed at roughin inspection instead of hole in plywood with NM tail, would that help?
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
It is the responsibility of the EC to make sure that his/her installation is code compliant. Just because the inspector doesn't catch a code violation doesn't make it correct or acceptacle.
I agree, but the constant availability in none boxed siding hardware creates the myth its ok. In fact I know of cases where a box was provided and latter a vinyl like this was tossed over:

http://www.gpvinylsiding.com/plygem...unting_blocks/products/unibl0ck_hero3_lrg.jpg


The conductor slipped through the hole and splices pushed up against the thing.


I have seen lots of exterior lights installed like you mentioned but the inspector is not required to remove fixture and check wiring on the final inspection. But if the the inspector were to see it for some reason I think it would fail.

But lets say an inspector saw the above (box covered with mount), would it still fail?
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
misread mbrookes question

misread mbrookes question

But lets say an inspector saw the above (box covered with mount), would it still fail?
Answered perfectly here:

I have seen lots of exterior lights installed like you mentioned but the inspector is not required to remove fixture and check wiring on the final inspection. But if the the inspector were to see it for some reason I think it would fail.
If installed w/ out a box its its getting failed if the inspector is going by code.
 
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