400A Main turns off by itself

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mivey

Senior Member
True, and we still have things we can't explain, but some day may be able to.;)
Then we would have to change some of the natural "laws". That is the point of supernatural things: the "laws" we have do not explain them. We just don't know enough to have a perfect set of "laws", not that there's anything wrong with that. Believe it or not, science is limited and we simply can't explain everything because we don't know everything.

If you believe one day that we will travel to other vast parts of the universe (I do) we will have to find a way to solve the faster-than-light problem or extend our age limit in humongous portions. We live in a world limited by our current science so I'm not real concerned that "everything" has to be proven by science, at least "science" as we know it.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Then we would have to change some of the natural "laws". That is the point of supernatural things: the "laws" we have do not explain them. We just don't know enough to have a perfect set of "laws", not that there's anything wrong with that. Believe it or not, science is limited and we simply can't explain everything because we don't know everything.

If you believe one day that we will travel to other vast parts of the universe (I do) we will have to find a way to solve the faster-than-light problem or extend our age limit in humongous portions. We live in a world limited by our current science so I'm not real concerned that "everything" has to be proven by science, at least "science" as we know it.
Totally agree. We have even changed our theory on some things as time went by and we discovered we were wrong about something.

If you were able to take someone out of time from several hundred years ago and put them in our time without preparing them for the technology they are going to see, they will think we have some super powers or are magicians. People from the early industrial revolution period may be more amazed at what we can do then think it is supernatural or magic. I'd think most of us today would be about the same if we could see the technology of a couple hundred years in advance and be more amazed about it then think it is magic or supernatural.
 

mivey

Senior Member
Totally agree. We have even changed our theory on some things as time went by and we discovered we were wrong about something.

If you were able to take someone out of time from several hundred years ago and put them in our time without preparing them for the technology they are going to see, they will think we have some super powers or are magicians. People from the early industrial revolution period may be more amazed at what we can do then think it is supernatural or magic. I'd think most of us today would be about the same if we could see the technology of a couple hundred years in advance and be more amazed about it then think it is magic or supernatural.
Take a laser pointer or some such gadget back to colonial times and you would be burned as a witch. Certainly would be supernatural to an ancient person, say a Viking or something.

While it might be easy to believe there are greater things than we know that we may eventually be able to explain, what some struggle with is that there are other beings in our "universe" that know more than we do and can comprehend things we can't. I also believe that. Who knows how many other realms are around that we don't know how to contact yet?
 

charlie b

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Electrical Engineer
Try the camera recording again, with the camera in plain sight. Then install a second camera pointing at the first, but don't tell anyone about it and find a place to hide it. That will reveal any human intervention.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Having worked for both Sq. D and Siemens, I can attest to the fact that the breaker CANNOT move from On to Off on its own, doing so would violate NEMA design standards. Even with a shunt trip or under voltage release, the device operates the TRIP bar, so the breaker moves to the Tripped (center) position, not Off. Even the mechanical force of opening a dead short at the maximum interrupt capacity of the breaker is not allowed to over travel the handle mechanism to the full Off position. There must be a distinctly different Tripped position.

It's possible that there was a defective breaker. Siemens had a recall a decade ago on some 400A frame Sentron breakers because of a similar issue, having to do with a small plastic part in the handle that was out of spec and could break off, which could interfere with the proper handle operation, one possible outcome of which was reported to be the lack of a trip position. But 3 defective breakers with the exact same defect that Sq. D is unaware of? Not likely.

POSSIBLY there is a motor operator on this breaker that the OP is unaware of. It might be tied to some sort of energy or power quality monitoring system and when it sees something going wrong, is MOTORING the main breaker open on purpose. Something like a Sq. D Powerlink MVP system. For all we know, this could be completely normal, the OP has never reported back a part number for the breaker.

I started from the same point that you did. I used to overhaul large submarine breakers for the Navy. It was many years ago, so I was wracking my brain. And I have come to the conclusion that you may not be 100% correct here. Take the ITE 1600A open frame that used to be on the 637 class subs or the old Westinghouse from further back. The remote trip coil activated a plunger that activated the same trip bar as the trip units did. In order to close the breaker again, you could merely activate the closing coil and the breaker would close. You could also use a closing bar and close it manually. The trip position and the open position are exactly the same. NO resetting is required to close the breakers. I can't think of any molded case breakers that this is true for but it is true for many of the open frame breakers including the newer ones with charging springs and electronic trip units too.
 

cowboyjwc

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I'm a believer, I've seen and heard just enough to make me so. Come on over to Facebook and ask to join my site "Simi Valley Paranormal" (it's a closed site, but we're just shy of 1000 members). Some great stories and pics on there. We also talk about UFO's and cryptozoology and just the unexplained, such as interdimensional travel and what not.
 

Jraef

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Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I started from the same point that you did. I used to overhaul large submarine breakers for the Navy. It was many years ago, so I was wracking my brain. And I have come to the conclusion that you may not be 100% correct here. Take the ITE 1600A open frame that used to be on the 637 class subs or the old Westinghouse from further back. The remote trip coil activated a plunger that activated the same trip bar as the trip units did. In order to close the breaker again, you could merely activate the closing coil and the breaker would close. You could also use a closing bar and close it manually. The trip position and the open position are exactly the same. NO resetting is required to close the breakers. I can't think of any molded case breakers that this is true for but it is true for many of the open frame breakers including the newer ones with charging springs and electronic trip units too.
I agree with you, they DO in fact completely close using the charge mechanism, but they are not the same as a Molded Case Circuit Breaker. What you are talking about would be Insulated Case or Power Breakers and have different design specs.

And now that we know it's a Sq. D LAL frame, I guarantee that the breaker CANNOT go into a full open position from any trip function, unless there is a serious defect in the breaker, which Schneider should be all over immediately with a recall. There are SPECIFIC applications using the a mechanism that allow the breaker to trip, but NOT be allowed to be reset until the lock is removed. If the handle were to move all the way to the open position, it would interfere with that functionality and possibly be a serious safety concern.

The other possibility here, not mentioned yet, is that the OP is not exactly familiar with that center "Tripped" position being different, and doesn't understand that subtlety of not being able to re-close it without moving the handle to the full Off position manually first.. How 'bout it Ride The Lightning, care to elaborate?
 

Johnnybob

Senior Member
Location
Colville, WA
So this might be a stupid question, but is the panel door, by any chance, slightly bent in some way that would apply positive pressure to the operator that could cause it to open?
 
I agree with you, they DO in fact completely close using the charge mechanism, but they are not the same as a Molded Case Circuit Breaker. What you are talking about would be Insulated Case or Power Breakers and have different design specs. And now that we know it's a Sq. D LAL frame, I guarantee that the breaker CANNOT go into a full open position from any trip function, unless there is a serious defect in the breaker, which Schneider should be all over immediately with a recall. There are SPECIFIC applications using the a mechanism that allow the breaker to trip, but NOT be allowed to be reset until the lock is removed. If the handle were to move all the way to the open position, it would interfere with that functionality and possibly be a serious safety concern.The other possibility here, not mentioned yet, is that the OP is not exactly familiar with that center "Tripped" position being different, and doesn't understand that subtlety of not being able to re-close it without moving the handle to the full Off position manually first.. How 'bout it Ride The Lightning, care to elaborate?
I'm not sure I fully understand by your last paragraph, but I am confident I know the difference between a tripped breaker and a breaker in the off position.
 

roger

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Location
Fl
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Electrician
I'm not sure I fully understand by your last paragraph, but I am confident I know the difference between a tripped breaker and a breaker in the off position.
So put a lock on it and tell us if it stops it from happening. Cameras and PQ monitoring doesn't seem to be giving you any answers so stopping it from happening should be the logical solution.

Roger
 

GoldDigger

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Retired PV System Designer
So put a lock on it and tell us if it stops it from happening. Cameras and PQ monitoring doesn't seem to be giving you any answers so stopping it from happening should be the logical solution.

Roger
Even if the process of elimination seems to leave poltergeist type paranormal phenomena as one of the few explanations, a lock would at least have a chance of putting it outside what the strength of the "manifestation" can handle.
 

roger

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Even if the process of elimination seems to leave poltergeist type paranormal phenomena as one of the few explanations, a lock would at least have a chance of putting it outside what the strength of the "manifestation" can handle.
Exactly unless it has its own key or after locking it, a crow bar appears floating across the room.

Roger
 
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