Bonding gas pipes

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Dennis Alwon said:
You can also attach to the brass connector that fastens the CSST to the black pipe. Make sure you use an approved clamp for brass.
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Even if I had a connector I wouldn't attach it there. I'd feel alot better clamping on black iron than a brass fitting.
 
elohr46 said:
So for a 400 amp service we are using 1/0 copper to bond the csst gas piping system?
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Well you could depending on how your 400 amp service is arranged. If you use an all in one meter combo then you need 1/0. If you use a 400 amp meter base with 2- 200 amp panels then #2 is all that is necessary.
 
cpal said:
I'm pretty sure that at this time there is not a UL clamp listed to "US standards" allowing attachment to the compression nut on csst brass connetctors.

I am interested if you currently have one that is recognized in US ????
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I have heard that there are no ground clamps that have even been tested for use with copper. Go figure.

On the other hand why wouldn't a brass clamp be listed for use on a brass fitting. It passes here but I prefer to use the black iron pipe as Scott does.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I have heard that there are no ground clamps that have even been tested for use with copper. Go figure.

On the other hand why wouldn't a brass clamp be listed for use on a brass fitting. It passes here but I prefer to use the black iron pipe as Scott does.
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an inquiry to UL yieled a NO regarding the suitability of a pipe clamp if used on the hex nut of a brass csst fitting, that being said they are compliant in Cananda, the Canadian standards are written to recognize a test for such clamps on the brass nut (apparently).

UL is currently standardizing the US, Canandian, and Mexican Standards. I don't know how far that will go!!
 
CSST Fire

CSST Fire

I was recently contacted by an atty of an insurance company regarding a house fire that was caused by a direct or indirect lightning strike. The letter cites that CSST was the probabal cause and that proper bonding may possibly be an issue. The house was built in 2002 with the 1999 code in force. Based on the code in force at the time the EGC would be concidered the bond. Please comment on similar experiences.
 
I was worried about it interfering with the cathodic protection of the gas lines. I callled the gas company and they told me there are isolation couplings at the street so I don't have to worry about this,,,or it becoming a GEC accidentally.
 
dadyray said:
I was recently contacted by an atty of an insurance company regarding a house fire that was caused by a direct or indirect lightning strike. The letter cites that CSST was the probabal cause and that proper bonding may possibly be an issue. The house was built in 2002 with the 1999 code in force. Based on the code in force at the time the EGC would be concidered the bond. Please comment on similar experiences.
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That is how we learn and how code gets updated. The CSST was probably installed correctly and to code at the time. Now that issues have cropped up, there is at least awareness. It will take even longer for the code to change.

I think the insurance company is going to have to eat that one.
 
IMO if a listed gas pipe is installed by a plumber and it's listing requires bonding then the plumber is responsible for the bonding not the EC.
 
infinity said:
A boiler, which has electrical components and a piece of flexible gas pipe are two different animals.
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Not sure I agree with that. I don't want a plumber or a HVAC man in my panel or any other panel for that matter. I believe if they did try to bond the pipe into our panel then they could be cite for wiring without a license. This is the case around here anyway.
 
I agree with Rob. The extra bonding requirements for CSST are not found in the NEC and a proposal to put them in the 2011 NEC was rejected (at least so far). These extra-ordinary bonding requirements are found in the CSST manufacturer's instructions, which are not NEC 110.3(B) instructions, and in NFPA 54. The installation of this bonding should fall to the piping contractor and should be inspected by the plumbing inspector. It has nothing to do with the NEC or the scope of the NEC. If local rules prohibit the plumbing contractor from doing this work, then he would have to higher an electrician, but it all belongs on his inspection tickect, not the electrical contractors.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I agree with Rob. The extra bonding requirements for CSST are not found in the NEC and a proposal to put them in the 2011 NEC was rejected (at least so far). These extra-ordinary bonding requirements are found in the CSST manufacturer's instructions, which are not NEC 110.3(B) instructions, and in NFPA 54. The installation of this bonding should fall to the piping contractor and should be inspected by the plumbing inspector. It has nothing to do with the NEC or the scope of the NEC. If local rules prohibit the plumbing contractor from doing this work, then he would have to higher an electrician, but it all belongs on his inspection ticket, not the electrical contractors.
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Thanks Don, that was my point. This is not an NEC requirement therefore it should have nothing to do with the electrician. If someone wants to pay to have it installed by the EC that's fine but expecting the EC to assume the burden of installing bonding jumpers required by the plumbing manufacturer isn't part of the scope of the electrical code and isn't fair to the EC. I would be highly annoyed if the EI failed a job for not having a bonding jumper that is part of the plumbers work. If this does become part of the NEC then I will gladly change my opinion. :grin:
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I agree with Rob. The extra bonding requirements for CSST are not found in the NEC and a proposal to put them in the 2011 NEC was rejected (at least so far). These extra-ordinary bonding requirements are found in the CSST manufacturer's instructions, which are not NEC 110.3(B) instructions, and in NFPA 54. The installation of this bonding should fall to the piping contractor and should be inspected by the plumbing inspector. It has nothing to do with the NEC or the scope of the NEC. If local rules prohibit the plumbing contractor from doing this work, then he would have to higher an electrician, but it all belongs on his inspection tickect, not the electrical contractors.
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So then the bonding for gas piping is sized by 250.122 per NEC and not 250.66 like some of the gas piping manufacture instructions. Seemed a little silly to me to have a 1/0 copper bond wire going to the CSST for a 400 amp service.
 
elohr46 said:
So then the bonding for gas piping is sized by 250.122 per NEC and not 250.66 like some of the gas piping manufacture instructions. Seemed a little silly to me to have a 1/0 copper bond wire going to the CSST for a 400 amp service.
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This is normally true for the black pipe but with CSST the manufacturer requires more than 250.122 and it must be installed to 250.66 by someone. The argument is who is responsible to bond it not whether it is necessary or not. The NEC does not require it but the manufacturer does so it must be done.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
This is normally true for the black pipe but with CSST the manufacturer requires more than 250.122 and it must be installed to 250.66 by someone. The argument is who is responsible to bond it not whether it is necessary or not. The NEC does not require it but the manufacturer does so it must be done.
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Agreed. They normally use Trac Pipe/Omega Flex around here. I usually cite Section 4.10 Electrical Bonding/ Grounding in the Trac Pipe installation instruction manual and hand it to the builder. I usually see the EC being contracted / paid to bond it at the manifold or at first brass accessible connector with a brass bond clamp and never install the bond clamp directly on the stainless portion of the system.
 
dcspector said:
I usually see the EC being contracted / paid to bond it at the manifold or at first brass accessible connector with a brass bond clamp and never install the bond clamp directly on the stainless portion of the system.
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Greg are you saying that you require the clamp on the stainless part of the CSST piping? I hope not because that is not what I understand needs to be done.
 
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