Lobster tank GFCI protection?

[Craigv]

do you like yours pre-cooked?

After 17 pages, I didn't see any code article mentioned that might be interpreted as being a requirement, which is what the OP asked. I readily admit to getting bored with the bickering by page 4, and only picking as far back as page 15, so if anyone actually mentioned a relevant code article, I could have missed it.

 

[mbrooke]

yes, or distorted or misunderstood by the interpreting mind
or intentionally and disingenuously by the interpreting mind
lol

can't be done
this thread and the t&d line Z thread are proof

What about the trafo fault limiting thread where a utility engineer and several others disagreed with your stance?

As such I think what I said about Z (asked for help) 7 months ago is irrelevant.

 

[mbrooke]

250 mA is not gfci
and will kill in < 1/2 sec
6 ma will not

Its not even GFP per NEC terms. But the concept is the same.

this is more of a leakage detector
but interesting to note it was developed for MINING lol
mines are very WET places

The world’s first high-sensitivity earth leakage protection system (i.e. a system capable of protecting people from the hazards of direct contact between a live conductor and earth), was a second-harmonic magnetic amplifier core-balance system, known as the magamp, developed in South Africa by Henri Rubin. Electrical hazards were of great concern in South African gold mines, and Rubin, an engineer at the company C.J. Fuchs Electrical Industries of Alberton Johannesburg, initially developed a cold-cathode system in 1955 which operated at 525 V and had a tripping sensitivity of 250 mA. Prior to this, core balance earth leakage protection systems operated at sensitivities of about 10 A.

What year?

 

[mbrooke]

show me why this is not valid?

It is, and given typical electrode size / fault point a fish tank will not trip a breaker. Try the same number via 1inch cubed electrodes on opposite furthest corners of the tank. 24" x 12" x 20"- 25 gallons. 1 fresh water 1 salt.

 

[jumper]

After 17 pages, I didn't see any code article mentioned that might be interpreted as being a requirement, which is what the OP asked. I readily admit to getting bored with the bickering by page 4, and only picking as far back as page 15, so if anyone actually mentioned a relevant code article, I could have missed it.

The tank does not require GFCI per 210.8(B). No other section supercedes this.

Additional protection via GFCI is a design choice.

I chose to add it.

 

[jumper]

Jumper may automatically take your views without discrimination.....

Incorrect and please do presume to speak for me.

Jumper does not take MY position, he comprehends the basics,

Correct and basic common sense says that GFCI is a good idea in this application even though not required.

 

[mbrooke]

Incorrect and please do presume to speak for me.

Even if not the case I see it in your posts.

Correct and basic common sense says that GFCI is a good idea in this application even though not required.

Again, I do not dispute that. Rather claims such as water tripping a standard breaker in an aquarium fault.

 

[jumper]

Even if not the case I see it in your posts.

.

Um, sure..me calling him ornery, stubborn, and cranky are definitely compliments.:angel:

I may think he is smart, but I doubt Iggy and I are going out for coffee any time soon.

I want Iggy’s knowledge, whether we ever get along is not relevant. I ain’t here to make friends, I am here to learn and hopefully help.

Small talk and humor are great, makes the forum fun, but it is not the focus of this forum.

 

[ggunn]

Do you have any idea how high the resistance of water is? Standard tap water will not trip a GFCI, salt water is hit or miss.

I don't think that's true. I would think that the resistivity of rainwater would be higher than that of tap water. I have an outdoor receptacle on a GFI circuit; every time it rains and I have left the cover open on one of the outlets, the GFI trips.

 

[jumper]

I don't think that's true. I would think that the resistivity of rainwater would be less than that of tap water. I have an outdoor receptacle on a GFI circuit; every time it rains and I have left the cover open on one of the outlets, the GFI trips.

Well jeez gunny, close the darn cover!

 

[Ingenieur]

After 17 pages, I didn't see any code article mentioned that might be interpreted as being a requirement, which is what the OP asked. I readily admit to getting bored with the bickering by page 4, and only picking as far back as page 15, so if anyone actually mentioned a relevant code article, I could have missed it.

many said, including myself, not a requirement
but sound practice, enhanced safety, reduced liability
for $10
the code is a MINIMUM safety standard

 

[ggunn]

Well jeez gunny, close the darn cover!

Now, why in the world didn't I think of that?

 

[Ingenieur]

Um, sure..me calling him ornery, stubborn, and cranky are definitely compliments.:angel:

I may think he is smart, but I doubt Iggy and I are going out for coffee any time soon.

I want Iggy’s knowledge, whether we ever get along is not relevant. I ain’t here to make friends, I am here to learn and hopefully help.

Small talk and humor are great, makes the forum fun, but it is not the focus of this forum.

I like coffee :weeping:

 

[jumper]

Now, why in the world didn't I think of that?

Well, my personal opinion is that you solar dudes may have spent too much time in the sun.

 

[Ingenieur]

I've shown that tap or pool water can have single digit R
that does not matter
failed light
say water R is 1000
and you holding the bonded rail tip your toe in, 800 ohm
120/1800 = 66 ma
if sustained will kill you, fibrillation
or unconscious and fall in and drown
the gfci will trip though
and if the water is 'bonded' the gfci will trip when the light fails

the iec has a 600 pg doc on this stuff
body Z for many scenarios: voltages, body path, wet/dry, finger tip or palm, etc
it also has stuff on pools, showers, wet floors, etc
I won't be in the office tomorrow but I'll post some next week
this stuff is a science, not conjecture

 

[ggunn]

Well, my personal opinion is that you solar dudes may have spent too much time in the sun.

With the mad dogs and Englishmen, eh?

 

[Ingenieur]

Well, my personal opinion is that you solar dudes may have spent too much time in the sun.

:lol:

 

[jumper]

I like coffee :weeping:

No problem, me too. Heck, I will even buy.

But, you gotta explain HRG systems, never touched one myself and some schooling would do me good. Not seeking info now, I would start my own thread.

 

[Ingenieur]

No problem, me too. Heck, I will even buy.

But, you gotta explain HRG systems, never touched one myself and some schooling would do me good. Not seeking info now, I would start my own thread.

we can do that
we are going to very high nrg, 1 A on a 995 system
v-n = 576, 600 Ohm ngr, actually < 1 A

on 12470 we use 3 A due to cap coupling i
but set the gf relay at 125 mA
nuisance tripping is non-existent
if it trips, you have a problem/damage/something
and if you bypass the relay or raise the trip it will blow out the cable in hours if not minutes

 

[jumper]

we can do that
we are going to very high nrg, 1 A on a 995 system
v-n = 576, 600 Ohm ngr, actually < 1 A

on 12470 we use 3 A due to cap coupling i
but set the gf relay at 125 mA
nuisance tripping is non-existent
if it trips, you have a problem/damage/something
and if you bypass the relay or raise the trip it will blow out the cable in hours if not minutes

Not now, I will start a thread later. We can use this post as a basis if you want, but you are gonna have to lead me through in baby steps.

Trying to explain to me in the middle of this thread is a bad idea IMO. It will get muddled.