Lobster tank GFCI protection?

Status
Not open for further replies.
resistivity ohm cm
sea water 25
tap water 1000 , well water is lower

assume a length of 10" or 25 cm
coss sect 10x10 or 100 sq in or 650 sq cm
R = 1000 x 25/650 = 38 Ohm
body wet say 800 ohm
120/838 = 140 mA, death

now, large tank
length 20" front to back, 50 cm sq
cross sectional gradient path 36 x 20 = 4600 cm sq
R = 1000 x 50/4600 = 11 ohm
the larger to pool the worse

a lobster tank and many aquariums have salt water
R = 25 x 25/560 = 1 Ohm
the bigger the tank the lower the R

contrary to youtube water is a good conductor
guess that is a reason for IP ratings and wp boxes

what you don't know will kill others
 
Ingenieur said:
it is there to trip ANY device, not only a gfci

in most cases it will, that is why it is there
R = p x L/A
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how high the resistance of water is? Standard tap water will not trip a GFCI, salt water is hit or miss. Often miss as well.



it is there for several
one is to trip the protection
Pool Water. Where none of the bonded parts is in direct connection with the pool water, the pool water shall be in direct contact withan approved corrosion-resistant conductive surface that exposes not less than 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) of surface area to the pool water at all times. The conductive surface shall be located where it is not exposed to physical damage or dislodgement during usual pool activities, and it shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B).
Click to expand...

Now you are doing your research :) Yes- bonded water will trip a GFCI when a GFCI protected circuit faults in it.


it does

I am going to say you are a danger to others
you should not be in this line of work .,. seriously
everyone one of those code sections relate to water/moisture
you have 0 understanding of this subject yet you yammer, pontificare and bloviate as if you have mastery, it boggles the mind lol
Click to expand...

Its easy to pick out the obvious while failing to grasp the true intent of a code making body.

concrete does not lower body Z, it lowrrs the fault rtn path

really? lol
Click to expand...


It lowers at the point of contact, but yes, it also lowers the whole path as concrete is more conductive then wood. I'll agree with you on this- but it still proves my point. That its not so much the water as the environment which lowers fault resistance involving a person.
 
Ingenieur said:
resistivity ohm cm
sea water 25
tap water 1000 , well water is lower

assume a length of 10" or 25 cm
coss sect 10x10 or 100 sq in or 650 sq cm
R = 1000 x 25/650 = 38 Ohm
body wet say 800 ohm
120/838 = 140 mA, death

now, large tank
length 20" front to back, 50 cm sq
cross sectional gradient path 36 x 20 = 4600 cm sq
R = 1000 x 50/4600 = 11 ohm
the larger to pool the worse

a lobster tank and many aquariums have salt water
R = 25 x 25/560 = 1 Ohm
the bigger the tank the lower the R

contrary to youtube water is a good conductor
guess that is a reason for IP ratings and wp boxes

what you don't know will kill others
Click to expand...




Aheeem, I posted 2 videos (last one included) showing how salt lowers the resistance. Did you not see it sprinkled into the sink? Salt was on top of the toilet.
 
:happysad::lol:

tap water will trip a gfci
you are clueless

finally sunk in??? I repeated 50 times

you miss even the obvious and claim to divine intent
that is wacky

concrete is more conductive than wood, brilliant




mbrooke said:
Do you have any idea how high the resistance of water is? Standard tap water will not trip a GFCI, salt water is hit or miss. Often miss as well.

Now you are doing your research :) Yes- bonded water will trip a GFCI when a GFCI protected circuit faults in it.

Its easy to pick out the obvious while failing to grasp the true intent of a code making body.

It lowers at the point of contact, but yes, it also lowers the whole path as concrete is more conductive then wood. I'll agree with you on this- but it still proves my point. That its not so much the water as the environment which lowers fault resistance involving a person.
Click to expand...
 
mbrooke said:
Aheeem, I posted 2 videos (last one included) showing how salt lowers the resistance. Did you not see it sprinkled into the sink? Salt was on top of the toilet.
Click to expand...

I can think for myself
I KNOW tap water will trip a gfci, it's call tds, total dissolved solids
mostly chlorides and sulfates, typ 200-300 mg/l in tap water
as do almost everyone in the world lol
 
Ingenieur said:
:happysad::lol:

tap water will trip a gfci
you are clueless
Click to expand...

Under the right conditions. Big enough "electrode" and a path to ground.


finally sunk in??? I repeated 50 times

you miss even the obvious and claim to divine intent
that is wacky
Click to expand...

I am listening, but perhaps I know a small tid bit about something.

concrete is more conductive than wood, brilliant
Click to expand...

Is not most building concrete reinforced at least?

Ingenieur said:
I can think for myself
I KNOW tap water will trip a gfci, it's call tds, total dissolved solids
mostly chlorides and sulfates, typ 200-300 mg/l in tap water
as do almost everyone innthe world lol
Click to expand...


Right- so why didn't the GFCI trip when the guy put the cord in? Ground is grounded.
 
mbrooke said:
Under the right conditions. Big enough "electrode" and a path to ground.

I am listening, but perhaps I know a small tid bit about something.

Is not most building concrete reinforced at least?

Right- so why didn't the GFCI trip when the guy put the cord in? Ground is grounded.
Click to expand...

under almost ALL conditions
R = p x L/A

the jury is still out imo

yes

because he set it up to prove his point

Dalziel
Just three years after Dalziel received his patent manufacturers produced a commercially viable product that the National Electrical Code then required swimming pool underwater lighting systems to have Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter protection. The first introduction of GFCI protection.
 
coincidence
the population increased by 35% in the timeframe 1976-2000
 

Attachments

  • CD960463-1969-40BB-ADF2-245AB2999E9A.jpg
    CD960463-1969-40BB-ADF2-245AB2999E9A.jpg
    20.2 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
mbrooke said:
None and thats what I would expect with 2 prong tools and appliances obtaining a device that in essence does the work of the absent EGC.

That and more educated people and double insulted tools.
Click to expand...

those were std in 1995-2000
big drop
mostly gfci's

there is no proof around here that people are smarter
 
Ingenieur said:
under almost ALL conditions
R = p x L/A

the jury is still out imo

yes

because he set it up to prove his point

Dalziel
Just three years after Dalziel received his patent manufacturers produced a commercially viable product that the National Electrical Code then required swimming pool underwater lighting systems to have Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter protection. The first introduction of GFCI protection.
Click to expand...

His setup was not rigged. The GFCI did not trip in fresh water and I really didn't expect it too. Immediately tripped in salt water.

Again regarding under water lights- the 1968 code had other means to accomplish the same.
 
Ingenieur said:
those were std in 1995-2000
big drop
mostly gfci's

there is no proof around here that people are smarter
Click to expand...

In 1995-2000 yes, but prior to that you had countless metal tools without an EGC (2 prong). Mandating grounded outlet in the mid 60s was not putting an EGC on those tools. As such a GFCIs had to do the work of an EGC and did saving lives in the process.

Countries like the UK that had EGCs on everything metal and socket outlets that would not even take a cord with a broken ground pin mandated RCDs much latter because people were not denying from faulted tools.
 
mbrooke said:
His setup was not rigged. The GFCI did not trip in fresh water and I really didn't expect it too. Immediately tripped in salt water.

Again regarding under water lights- the 1968 code had other means to accomplish the same.
Click to expand...

then you are deluding yourself or lack understanding
you do not understand R = p x L/A

so? it added gfci
 
mbrooke said:
In 1995-2000 yes, but prior to that you had countless metal tools without an EGC (2 prong). Mandating grounded outlet in the mid 60s was not putting an EGC on those tools. As such a GFCIs had to do the work of an EGC and did saving lives in the process.

Countries like the UK that had EGCs on everything metal and socket outlets that would not even take a cord with a broken ground pin mandated RCDs much latter because people were not denying from faulted tools.
Click to expand...

you live in a conspiracy based fantasy land
gfci saves lifes
untold numbers
these are the dead
the survivors are orders of magnitude greater

as I said
yank them all out of your home
Darwin ;)
 
Ingenieur said:
you live in a conspiracy based fantasy land
gfci saves lifes
untold numbers
these are the dead
the survivors are orders of magnitude greater

as I said
yank them all out of your home
Darwin ;)
Click to expand...



Nope- I know the facts, history and theory. I've spoken to others across the pond. You don't want to give me the slightest credit or approach me with an open mind.

Again, I do not dispute that GFCIs save lives.
 
Ingenieur said:
Dalziel
Just three years after Dalziel received his patent manufacturers produced a commercially viable product that the National Electrical Code then required swimming pool underwater lighting systems to have Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter protection. The first introduction of GFCI protection.
Click to expand...


BTW, differential technology existed before Dalziel. Technically he did not invent the device that trips on such a scheme:


The first residual current connection circuit-breakers were manufactured in

1954.
Click to expand...

Bottom of page 6:

http://www.studiecd.dk/cahiers_techniques/System_earthings_worldwide_and_evolutions.pdf
 
ohm m
pool L = 10, coss section 10 x 2 = 20

pool
R = 0.4 x 10/20 = 0.2 ohm

drinking
20 to 2000
thin puddle
L = 1 mm = 0.001 m
A = 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/2 sq m
R = 20 x 0.001/0.5 = 0.04 Ohm
R = 2000 x 0.001/0.5 = 4 Ohm

all <<<< body Z
you know not of what you speak


Swimming pool water[j]3.33×10−1to 4.00×10−10.25 to 0.30[32]
Drinking water[k]2.00×101to 2.00×1035.00×10−4to
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top