it is not I who lack understanding :lol:
all 20 code sections relate to water/moisture
Lobster tank GFCI protection?
- Thread starter kp542
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it is not I who lack understanding :lol:
all 20 code sections relate to water/moisture
mbrooke
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Real number and real concepts, again taken out of context in relation to the discussion at hand.
You are claiming water will trip an OCPD, even a GFCI all the time- but as your numbers show water and electrode surface area and distance play a role.
mbrooke
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And concrete among others- why does an unfinished basement need GFCI but not a finished one?
All these areas are places where conditions lower body contact resistance and/or (body) fault path be it concrete, dirt, moisture, grounded object likely to be in reach, ect. In this cases an energized object is very likely to be lethal.
BTW, differential technology existed before Dalziel. Technically he did not invent the device that trips on such a scheme:
Bottom of page 6:
http://www.studiecd.dk/cahiers_techn...evolutions.pdf
you said tap or pool water has very high R and likely not trip a gfci or mccb
I say and PROVE it will with REAL world data and simple computation
they are not MY numbers!!! lol
R = p x L/A are everyones
OBVIOUSLY L and A 'play a role', are you stoned!?!?
I see the light of Jumpers bow out post
I feel a little bad like I'm teasing a kitten lol
mbrooke
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All the videos I posted already did. Even with Clive's salt water electrodes, spaced about 1/4 of an inch apart, about 6 inches long- and on 240- no breaker tripped.
Yes I know- but taken out of context and not the whole picture.
Jumper may automatically take your views without discrimination, but I am not like that.
which lowers skin conductivity
Then why does my paper say otherwise?
All the videos I posted already did. Even with Clive's salt water electrodes, spaced about 1/4 of an inch apart, about 6 inches long- and on 240- no breaker tripped.
Yes I know- but taken out of context and not the whole picture.
Jumper may automatically take your views without discrimination, but I am not like that.
which lowers skin conductivity
Then why does my paper say otherwise?
every experiment can be rigged
you do not get it
Jumper does not take MY position, he comprehends the basics, which you do not
really?!?!? it is in series, skin p stays the same
contact R decreases
because it is wrong
now excuse me, I'm wanted back on planet Earth
mbrooke
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Yahhh, all 5 You Tube vids are rigged. :roll::roll:
You spit out numbers which on a few occasions do not tell the whole story as in this case.
In simple terms we can say skin resistance at the point of contact is lower.
A paper by Schneider wrong?
OSHA
How does water affect the flow of electricity?
Pure water is a poor conductor. But small amounts of impurities in water like salt, acid, solvents, or other materials can turn water itself and substances that generally act as insulators into conductors or better conductors. Dry wood, for example, generally slows or stops the flow of electricity. But when saturated with water, wood turns into a conductor. This means that anyone working with electricity in a damp or wet environment needs to exercise extra caution to prevent electrical hazards.
How does water affect the flow of electricity?
Pure water is a poor conductor. But small amounts of impurities in water like salt, acid, solvents, or other materials can turn water itself and substances that generally act as insulators into conductors or better conductors. Dry wood, for example, generally slows or stops the flow of electricity. But when saturated with water, wood turns into a conductor. This means that anyone working with electricity in a damp or wet environment needs to exercise extra caution to prevent electrical hazards.
yes, Ohm's law is rigged lol
you can't read the equations, hence you miss the whole story
in simple terms, but incorrect terms
inaccurate
mbrooke
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anything can be taken out of context or misapplied.
Elaborate. Educate me on what that paper is saying.
mbrooke
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Yes, of course, but usually not enough to trip a breaker under the conditions were have in mind in this thread.
Does it? I wouldn't use it as a hot stick.
Yes, again, conditions that lower skin contact R.
250 mA is not gfci
and will kill in < 1/2 sec
6 ma will not
this is more of a leakage detector
but interesting to note it was developed for MINING lol
mines are very WET places
The world’s first high-sensitivity earth leakage protection system (i.e. a system capable of protecting people from the hazards of direct contact between a live conductor and earth), was a second-harmonic magnetic amplifier core-balance system, known as the magamp, developed in South Africa by Henri Rubin. Electrical hazards were of great concern in South African gold mines, and Rubin, an engineer at the company C.J. Fuchs Electrical Industries of Alberton Johannesburg, initially developed a cold-cathode system in 1955 which operated at 525 V and had a tripping sensitivity of 250 mA. Prior to this, core balance earth leakage protection systems operated at sensitivities of about 10 A.
and will kill in < 1/2 sec
6 ma will not
this is more of a leakage detector
but interesting to note it was developed for MINING lol
mines are very WET places
The world’s first high-sensitivity earth leakage protection system (i.e. a system capable of protecting people from the hazards of direct contact between a live conductor and earth), was a second-harmonic magnetic amplifier core-balance system, known as the magamp, developed in South Africa by Henri Rubin. Electrical hazards were of great concern in South African gold mines, and Rubin, an engineer at the company C.J. Fuchs Electrical Industries of Alberton Johannesburg, initially developed a cold-cathode system in 1955 which operated at 525 V and had a tripping sensitivity of 250 mA. Prior to this, core balance earth leakage protection systems operated at sensitivities of about 10 A.
yes, or distorted or misunderstood by the interpreting mind
or intentionally and disingenuously by the interpreting mind
lol
can't be done
this thread and the t&d line Z thread are proof
Craigv
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So.......must GFCI's be used near a lobster tank, or not?
almost ALL the time
0.2 Ohm is pretty low
it sounds like you've used your noggin'
like all 20 req code locations?
as I said
just yank them out of you house
no purpose or advantage
show me why this is not valid?
concrete ~ 20 kOhm cm
slab 6" x 20' x 20'
L = 150 cm
A = 370,000 sq cm
R = 20,000 x 150/370,000 = 8 Ohm
pretty low
assume body 800 Ohm, damp floor
rest of path to rod 25 Ohm
120/(8 + 800 + 25) = 144 mA
mccb no trip = dead
gfci = trip and live to fight another day
slab 6" x 20' x 20'
L = 150 cm
A = 370,000 sq cm
R = 20,000 x 150/370,000 = 8 Ohm
pretty low
assume body 800 Ohm, damp floor
rest of path to rod 25 Ohm
120/(8 + 800 + 25) = 144 mA
mccb no trip = dead
gfci = trip and live to fight another day
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