Moonlighting

[emahler]

ok, so tie my hands and make me jump through hoops to protect certain consumers.

but look the otherway and don't worry about guys violating the laws and opening other consumers up to potentially serious issues?

 

[celtic]

now in NJ, under that definition, it's a 4th degree felony, punishable with jailtime.

Has anyone been prosecuted?

If yes has it been more than a stern 'Don't do that again'?

Most of the guys I know that do side jobs are licensed, insured, pull permits and get inspections.

Bob,
NJ is "cracking down" on the trunk slammers ~ the State has realized the trunk slammers are a cash cow ripe for picking:

[Notice of Implementation of Home Improvement Contractor Registration Regulations] , which ties in with the Consumer Fraud Act

I can't say if the State has exerciesed this law or anyone other than "electricians" (I have only researched electricians").
For "electrician's" the Board of Examiner's of Electrical Contractors does not seem to be in the habit of persuing jail time for those in violation ~ but rather a monetary fine. This may only be the case with first time offenders, I do not know if repeat offenders are hit with with fines and jail time.
Here are some of the penalties that have those in violation of the law have been hit with:

Check in the amount of $500.00 received from xxxxx xxxxx, Unlicensed, as the seventh installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $6,000.00 for violation of N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9. Payments started January 26, 2006 and the balance due is $1,500.00.

***********

The Board reviewed an application for reinstatement received from xxxxx x. xxxxx, xx., as he failed to renew his License ##### for the 1997 to 2000; 2000 to 2003; 2003 to 2006 and 2006 to 2009 triennial renewal periods.
Motion made by Mr. Joseph F. Cantalupo and seconded by Mr. Robert A. McCullough, and unanimously passed, that a letter be sent to Mr. xxxxx advising him that he must take and pass the written examination in order to regain his license pursuant to the Uniform Enforcement Act which requires that five years after a license has expired a licensee is not permitted to renew his/her license without first taking the qualifying examination.


***********

Personal Money Order in the amount of $1,000.00 received from xxxxx xxxxx, Unlicensed, as the second installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $5,000.00 for violation of N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9. Payments started April 13, 2006 and the balance due is $3,000.00.


***********

Postal Money Order in the amount of $300.00 received from xxxx x. xxxxxx, License ######, t/a xxxxxx xxxxx Electrical Contractor, as the twentieth installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $7,500.00 for violation of N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9 and N.J.S.A. 56:8-1 et seq. Payments started June 7, 2004 and the balance due is $1,500.00.

http://www.nj.gov/lps/ca/electric/minutes/elecmin.htm

I have removed the names of those in violation - if you want to know, follow the link, this is all public information.

 

[growler]

Forum Rules: Installers, contractors and electricians are to comply with local laws and ordinances.

Should be amended to state: If they happen to agree with said laws and they don't happen to interfere with making a few bucks on the side.

On a site where people are afraid to give a little advice to a homeowner ( not illegal ) it's hard to believe that the same people would advocate breaking the law in other areas.

 

[iwire]

On a site where people are afraid to give a little advice to a homeowner ( not illegal ) it's hard to believe that the same people would advocate breaking the law in other areas.

Interesting.

I did not see that it was advocated.

I saw that it was discussed as a common occurrence and some people admitted to having done it.

 

[celtic]

I honestly hope there are no hard feelings and everyone respects where the other is coming from... right or wrong. (I know i'm in the wrong)

Stick,
While I don't "approve" of what you do, I understand where you are coming from ....I have no hard feelings towards you. Quite the contrary....
Personally, I believe if you are making a weeks pay in a single weekend you could make MORE if you did it on your own - you might only need to work 4 or 5 days a week and get to spend the weekend with your family or friends or even just picking your nose. Point is, you would make more and work less.


(...and no, you don't need my "approval" to live the lifestyle you have grown accu$tomed to )

 

[George Stolz]

Or does everyone think since I don't play by the rules its not fair...

Well, that's kinda the nature of this discussion, as much as I've kept up with it, at least.

I'd tend to agree - in essence, a sideworker gets away with charging a lot (compared to hourly wage) due to the fact that ECs have to charge a lot due to overhead. Because the legit businesses have to charge a lot to stay afloat, a sideworker benefits by association and the EC does suffer the lost lead.

The primary purpose of many of the rules is safety. The part that gets me is that the financial interaction starts getting a front seat, when motives are evaluated. I'm not picking on either side for this, it's natural. As far as it goes, money drives the planet, so it will be a driving force in many moral discussions, at least most passionate ones.

Boy, what great law abiding citizens we have on the forum.... I guarentee if we open up some closets nobody here is better than me...

I salute you for keeping it real. I'd say most people on the forum are better than me, but I would say that I'll bet everyone has something in their past they'd erase if they could.

 

[emahler]

Interesting.

I did not see that it was advocated.

I saw that it was discussed as a common occurrence and some people admitted to having done it.

grab some coffee and reread the entire thread, it was advocated. It's been advocated in other places as well. Maybe not as overtly as you would require, but it's there.

 

[emahler]

I guarentee if we open up some closets nobody here is better than me...

i wish i could erase the 6 months I did in juvi for "moonlighting" that candybar...

 

[George Stolz]

Dale, I agree with Bob, I saw no advocation.

I predicted this discussion would have turned sour and been closed 100 posts ago. Instead, it's actually been a fairly interesting dialogue between the two sides, and has been kept fairly clean, considering the emotion on both sides. I'd say it's been a good read (at least the 20% I've read!)

 

[iwire]

grab some coffee and reread the entire thread, it was advocated. It's been advocated in other places as well. Maybe not as overtly as you would require, but it's there.

I did read this entire thread.....as much as it pained me.

IMO I really did not see that breaking the law was advocated.

If you feel I am mistaken feel free to point it out to another moderator or to the Chief moderator. I mean this with 100% sincerity, no hard feelings at all.

I don't think I have to point out to you that each of us sees things differently, including the moderators.

 

[George Stolz]

I don't think I have to point out to you that each of us sees things differently, including the moderators.

What are you talking about? You and I never argue!

 

[iwire]

ok, so tie my hands and make me jump through hoops to protect certain consumers.

but look the otherway and don't worry about guys violating the laws and opening other consumers up to potentially serious issues?

Sadly that is the reality of the situation.

I don't worry to much about consumers that knowingly hires Hank the handyman knowing he will not pull permits and may not be insured.

But take note of Celtics posting, it appears that NJ is going to do it for the money.

 

[growler]

When resi customers call looking for work, I pass it on to guys I know, who can do the work. You may see it as wrong, but I'm helping both people out. The customer looking for a decent electrician, and the guy looking to make a couple extra bucks.

I would call this not only advocating but aiding.

 

[iwire]

I would call this not only advocating but aiding.

Is there more to the post?

Did he say the people he hands the work off to are working illegally?


As I said I work with quite a few electricians here in MA that side job.

They pull permits, get inspections, have insurance etc.

This is legal here even though they work out of their trunks as it where.

 

[growler]

I don't think I have to point out to you that each of us sees things differently, including the moderators.

Bob, I think of an argument like a bar room fight, unless someone pulls a gun it's just good clean fun. After it's over you have a beer and forget about it.
But while the fight is in progress you don't pull any punches.

If people wish to do a little side work then that's their business. But don't try to justify it and don't pretend it's legal. There can be consequences.

We speed almost every day on the highway but if we are involved in an accident and someone is killed then speed will be written up as a factor. The fact that most of the time we don't get a ticket for speeding won't help one bit.

I enjoy a good argument at Christmas, it makes me feel at home.

Happy Holidays All.

 

[emahler]

Sadly that is the reality of the situation.

I don't worry to much about consumers that knowingly hires Hank the handyman knowing he will not pull permits and may not be insured.

But take note of Celtics posting, it appears that NJ is going to do it for the money.

of course they are doing it for the money. The extra 24 hrs of continuing education that we now need, the ridiculous permit fees that towns charge, etc. are all about money.

$2.25/gal for gas, $3/gal milk, $300,000 for a house...it's all about money.

Someone working on the nights and weekends for $30/hr when I'm paying his benefits and following the labor laws for him, it's about money.

I just don't advocate looking the other way because "there's nothing that can be done" Call me stubborn. If you don't like a law, work to change it, don't just snub your nose at those that work within the current law.

 

[iwire]

Call me stubborn. If you don't like a law, work to change it, don't just snub your nose at those that work within the current law.

Complaining about moonlighters here on this forum or ECN is not working to change the law.

As far as the 'snub' I don't have a clue what you mean.

I have to take two separate CE classes, one covers MA and RI (21 Hrs) than I get the pleasure of doing it again for CT (15 hrs)

Of course no one is holding a gun to my head, I could go into another line of work.

 

[iwire]

If people wish to do a little side work then that's their business. But don't try to justify it and don't pretend it's legal.

Dale it is not always illegal to side job.

It may be where you are but it is not here.

And Merry Christmas to you as well. :smile:

 

[emahler]

Complaining about moonlighters here on this forum or ECN is not working to change the law.

As far as the 'snub' I don't have a clue what you mean.

I have to take two separate CE classes, one covers MA and RI (21 Hrs) than I get the pleasure of doing it again for CT (15 hrs)

Of course no one is holding a gun to my head, I could go into another line of work.

alright, not complaining, simply starting a discussion amongst licensed contractors to get their ideas. There already is a law in NJ that makes "moonlighting" (as defined in this thread) illegal, why would I change the law? I just wish they would enforce it.

2nd. - congrats for the education. I've stating on several occasions how I think you are a real good electrician who cares about his craft.

3rd - snub was not aimed at anyone in particular, rather the general notion of "i know it's illegal, but so what" That is what i was referring to in regards to changing the law.

Now, good luck and merry christmas.

 

[iwire]

Now, good luck and merry christmas.

Thanks and have both a safe and profitable new year.

Because as strange as you may find this I am not anti business.