Moonlighting

[stickboy1375]

I have to make a confession: I aided moonlighters last year.

After a big snowstorm, 3 boys came to my door and offered to shovel my driveway for $10. I said "yes" gasp. I know, I know, I should of asked if they were licensed and insured, but I didn't. I probably should of turned in these hacks, these tax evading scoundrels that are killing the plowing industry.

Trades and bartering have been around in societies for thousands of years and are probably a big part of mankind's success thus far. Its only when the government gets involved that screws everything up.

Thats pretty funny, A local story of a kid selling Night Crawlers made the news, go figure, guess the state wanted a piece of the action..... My first reaction was those POOR bait shops.... unfair competition.

 

[growler]

After a big snowstorm, 3 boys came to my door and offered to shovel my driveway for $10. I said "yes" gasp. I know, I know, I should of asked if they were licensed and insured, but I didnt. I probably should of turned in these hacks, these tax evading scoundrels that are killing the plowing industry.

Overkill, I'm sure you mean well but for the time those boys were shoveling snow you had three uninsured temp. employees. If one of them had managed to hurt himself would you still be as happy.

A friend of mine fell off a ladder while cleaning an old lady's gutter for free. It's a good thing that he has a good heart. He didn't sue but the insurance company could wait to pay for his medical. They didn't think it was funny.

Food for thought: What if he broke his neck and not his arm and the medical was 300K and not 3K.

 

[stickboy1375]

Overkill, I'm sure you mean well but for the time those boys were shoveling snow you had three uninsured temp. employees. If one of them had managed to hurt himself would you still be as happy.

A friend of mine fell off a ladder while cleaning an old lady's gutter for free. It's a good thing that he has a good heart. He didn't sue but the insurance company could wait to pay for his medical. They didn't think it was funny.

Food for thought: What if he broke his neck and not his arm and the medical was 300K and not 3K.

I would show your friend how to setup and use a ladder correctly...

 

[growler]

I would show your friend how to setup and use a ladder correctly...

Stickboy, what happens if you are killed while doing some of this side work. You probably think it won't happen and it may not. In 30 years I have only seen 3 people killed on the job. But I don't think any of them got up that morning and said " I'm out of here it's my last day ".

I can tell you what will happen. Your customer is going to get a lesson in the hard facts of life, right after your widow gets a good lawyer.

If it turns out that it's the customer that gets hurt then guess who get the lesson.

I wouldn't think of doing electrical work or driving without insurance.

A cavalier attitude always makes a person feel good right up to the time the cell door slams. Then it's crying time.

 

[iwire]

Dale that is really sad that you are so worried about consequences that you would not help clean out an old lady's gutter.

While it is true we need to think about what can happen I refuse to live in fear.

I can do nothing wrong and still be sued.

 

[celtic]

Did we leave America?

Not unless NJ fell into the ocean.

Here, you can read the [Statutes and Regulations] for the Great State of New Jersey.

 

[stickboy1375]

Stickboy, what happens if you are killed while doing some of this side work. You probably think it won't happen and it may not. In 30 years I have only seen 3 people killed on the job. But I don't think any of them got up that morning and said " I'm out of here it's my last day ".

I can tell you what will happen. Your customer is going to get a lesson in the hard facts of life, right after your widow gets a good lawyer.

If it turns out that it's the customer that gets hurt then guess who get the lesson.

I wouldn't think of doing electrical work or driving without insurance.

A cavalier attitude always makes a person feel good right up to the time the cell door slams. Then it's crying time.

What about if I wake up tomorrow, and nothing happens...? o'well just another day then isn't it... You can spend all the time you want worring about what if's... I dont/won't live like that, and don't think you can't be sued for just being alive... I take the cards i'm dealt with, Nothing is going to change that hand....

 

[growler]

While it is true we need to think about what can happen I refuse to live in fear.

Bob, you are both insured and legal. You already stated that.
Tell me how many miles you have driven without auto insurance in say the last 20 years.
Tell us of all the uninsured & unlicensed electrical work that you have done. I venture to say it's none.

Sure you can be sued for doing nothing. Don't you think that you increase the probabilities when doing something illegal. I can go to jail and be innocent ( happens to people ) but I do increase the probability if I commit a crime.

 

[celtic]

I see it that way... A hack homeowner can do his own work, yet you don't complain, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc, sell parts and give advice on installing electrical, you don't complain, I come in, And I just committed the biggest crime of the century? Who's kidding who...

A HO is allowed to do there own work in a SFH that they occupy - PROVIDED they pull the neccessary permits. A LL or commercial tenant is in violation of the law if they wanted to perform the same tasks. (This is specific for NJ - I can't say for any other State)

The Big Box stores....they are one of the biggest problems (in regards to DIYers). They have hired people who may have NO experience in the department where they work. What makes you think the help at the Big Box stores has a clue?

I'll tell you who's kidding who:

You are.
​

You apparently have the skills to perform the tasks, but lack the desire to put yourself out there and do it legitmately.

No offense Stickboy, it's just how I see it.

 

[stickboy1375]

Stickboy, what happens if you are killed while doing some of this side work. You probably think it won't happen and it may not. In 30 years I have only seen 3 people killed on the job. But I don't think any of them got up that morning and said " I'm out of here it's my last day ".

Same thing that happens to me if I die at my job, in my car, in my house, etc... I die...?

 

[iwire]

Bob, you are both insured and legal. You already stated that.

When I did side work I did carry insurance, I do not now.

But you left the topic, you started talking about gutters and people shoveling driveways.

 

[satcom]

"Food for thought: What if he broke his neck and not his arm and the medical was 300K and not 3K."

All you need to do is read the court cases, they are in the paper every day, But that only happens to the other guy!

Putting the homeowner in a risk it all situation, by not having insurance!

Not reporting income!

Not filing for required permits!

Not paying state, and local taxes!

Operating without a license where required!

Operating without a business permit where required!

I just can't understand who i am hurting and what i am doing wrong?

 

[growler]

But you left the topic, you started talking about gutters and people shoveling driveways.

Bob, I didn't leave the subject. An example was given. Of kids shoveling snow( side work ). I don't know of anyone that was ever hurt shoveling snow but I do know of the gutter cleaning incident.

 

[celtic]

I just can't understand who i am hurting and what i am doing wrong?

Obviously Uncle Sam ....and all the other licensed ECs who have taken the time to LOSE money by obtaining their credentials, insurance, bonding, CE credits, etc.
All that time wasted being legit could have been money making time instead of money spending time.

 

[iwire]

Again I point out that in some areas there is nothing inherently illegal about moonlighting.

 

[celtic]

Again I point out that in some areas there is nothing inherently illegal about moonlighting.

While that may be true, it is equally true that in some areas it is considered illegal - and it's important to state that fact also and not just downplay the whole concept.

 

[stickboy1375]

Well I have to go wrap my kids christmas gifts that I bought with my sidework money, Everyone have a Merry Christmas... and be good...

 

[growler]

"Food for thought: What if he broke his neck and not his arm and the medical was 300K and not 3K."

All you need to do is read the court cases, they are in the paper every day, But that only happens to the other guy!

I just can't understand who i am hurting and what i am doing wrong?

Thank You Satcom. I'm glad that someone understands that this was just the only example I know of, personally.

The Arabs have a sayings " This I have seen with my own eyes " meaning it's not BS.

 

[satcom]

"Again I point out that in some areas there is nothing inherently illegal about moonlighting"

That is true provided:

Your not putting the homeowner in a risk it all situation, by not having insurance!

You are reporting your side job income!

You are filing for all required permits!

You are paying all state, and local taxes!

And operating with a license where required!

And operating with a business permit where required!

 

[growler]

Again I point out that in some areas there is nothing inherently illegal about moonlighting.

Bob do you want a gold star? We agreed that if you are legal there is nothing wrong back on page two.

I think you can grow pot in Alaska but that doesn't change the laws in other states.

By the way... Moving to Alaska.