Moonlighting

[emahler]

I'll very queitly tell you what is said in the circles I work - the side work hacks - of which I used to be a part of and my employer does'nt care -though my union does - is that we are stealing non union work and hurting them rather than our union contractors whom do commercial/industrial work

Merry Christmas and happy b-day to my son -a christmas eve baby

See I happen to be a firm believer in trickle down economics...I also believe in things having an effect beyond what we typically realize.

I just read an article about how businesses in NYC from auto dealerships to realtors are feeling the windfall of the estimated $24 billion dollars in bonuses being paid out on wall street. The bankers and such are spending those bonuses and increasing business for everyone.

Now, moonlight and take work away from the little guy. He decides to get bigger and go head to head with the union shops for the commercial/industrial work. Now, there are more union men sitting the bench. Cause and effect.

 

[celtic]

Now, moonlight and take work away from the little guy. He decides to get bigger and go head to head with the union shops for the commercial/industrial work. Now, there are more union men sitting the bench. Cause and effect.

I don't neccessarily agree with you here.
If a moonlighter "takes" the work from the little guy, the little guy can't simply decide to expand. The little guy could be hurting from the loss of revenue and not be in a position to expand.
If the little guy was ever in a position to expand, he would expand while revenues were high, not low. He might decide that he can't keep the extra bodies he has with him, leaving one or two empolyees on the unemployment line - freeing up their time to do more "moonlighting" in the daylight....which, possibly, hurts the little guy even more.

Cause and effect from a different angle.

 

[iwire]

You can't really blame Wal-Mart, they just do it better than all the rest.

Yes I can blame them, you should watch the Frontline show before you decide.

 

[emahler]

I don't neccessarily agree with you here.
If a moonlighter "takes" the work from the little guy, the little guy can't simply decide to expand. The little guy could be hurting from the loss of revenue and not be in a position to expand.
If the little guy was ever in a position to expand, he would expand while revenues were high, not low. He might decide that he can't keep the extra bodies he has with him, leaving one or two empolyees on the unemployment line - freeing up their time to do more "moonlighting" in the daylight....which, possibly, hurts the little guy even more.

Cause and effect from a different angle.

i thought you left all this behind for eye exams and brain surgery?

 

[celtic]

i thought you left all this behind for eye exams and brain surgery?

As a certified Dr (I have certified myself and will certify you for $24.99), I have chosen to also moonlight as an electrician. When I goto a person's home to perform a surgery, most times the lighting is inadequete

I always win

 

[celtic]

Yes I can blame them, you should watch the Frontline show before you decide.

I think EVERYONE should take some time and watch the entire show.
It's broken down into 5 episodes so you don't have to watch it all in one sitting - although most WILL when they start watching ti.

 

[iwire]

It's broken down into 5 episodes so you don't have to watch it all in one sitting - although most WILL when they start watching ti.

It sucked me in and than thoroughly depressed me.

 

[growler]

Now comes the discussion on how tests will solve all the problems? Cut me a break.....

For $400, there are handfuls of guys who teach classes in NJ, have all the answers to the test, and can pretty much guarentee you a passing grade.
Unless your a total bonehead.
And I bet some here actually took these guys courses, just to pass the test, and now they are the ALMIGHTY contractor.
But they won't admit to it, of course....

Tests are the answer....Pls...

The Dnkldorf makes a good argument, But if it's so easy to become a legitimate contractor ( full or part time ) why do so many feel it's better to do the jobs as illegal side work.

I'll tell you why. The only way that these jobs are profitable ( for the prices quoted ) is under the table for cash money. Even the side jobbers can't afford to do them if they are forced to get permits and pay taxes on the income.

Note* Not refering to MA where getting insurance would be the same as starting a side business.

 

[celtic]

It sucked me in and than thoroughly depressed me.

It made me angry

 

[celtic]

The Dnkldorf makes a good argument....

I don't see it even as an arguement.

The same can be said for any sort of schooling:
http://www.essaytown.com/
http://www.cheathouse.com/
http://www.schoolsucks.com/


I would rather a "EC" that paid the the price to play LEGALLY, than some trunk-slammer - ANY DAY!

Why?
The pay to player will STILL incur the costs associated with running a legitimate business.
If they intend to go full-time, it's sink or swim - take a "real" course ...and they will probably have to in order to compete with "real" ECs.
If they stay part-timers, at least it's legal.

The jack-leg may know even LESS than the pay to player ...if they know so much, why don't they have the proper credentials? Could it be they can't pass a test? So pay the man and do it...and do it legitimately.

It's still ass-backwards thinking.

 

[tallgirl]

It made me angry

Rubbermaid isn't the only company they've put out of business. They have a way of driving their suppliers, and the suppliers' employees, out of business. They also treat their employees like crap. I'm friends with a woman who was a manager for a Sam's Club. She was assaulted by a customer and wound up being fired as a result.

 

[celtic]

I'm friends with a woman who was a manager for a Sam's Club. She was assaulted by a customer and wound up being fired as a result.

That is probably not an isolated incident.
Here's more:
http://walmartwatch.com/
http://www.walmartsucks.org/


While I totally dispise Wal-Mart, personally, I don't feel this thread (or even this forum?) should be used to bash Wal-Mart.

There are plenty of other sites dedicated to exposing Wal-Mart.

I tossed Wal-Mart out here because Wal-Mart is an easy target of low pricing/low wages - much like a "moonlighter ( #267).

So far, only one person has attempted to defend Wal-Mart's trade paractices ( #305).... I'm still waiting for the " provable false" claim to be "proved".

 

[celtic]

how would you feel if McDonald's charged you $10 for a burger ...

How do you feel about a $110 burger?
$110 hamburger lands on hotel menu

Before you read the article ....guess what country - you might be surpirised :wink:

 

[satcom]

Good Morning, I hope everyone is making the most of their holiday, checked the mail, and thought i would take a quick look at the site.

I would like to reply to, the anyone can pay $400 to pass a New Jersey License Exam.

Sure would be nice for many if it was that easy, the prep courses, are for those that already have studied the field, and need to prepare for testing, as noted, every professional license offered, has a prep test also offered, anyone thinking, you can buy a license in New Jersey is misinformed, prep testing does help improve your overall score, provided you already have a good understanding of the test content, your not expected to have the code section, in memory, what you do need to show, is your ability to locate the section, and understand it's application.

Many of the moonlighting jobs we see, have serious code violations, putting the consumer in a dangerous position, the main reason this industry is regulated, not to insure any level of business activity.

Please lets take a look at the real dangers of moonlighting, and understand it as serious issue.

Thank you

 

[Tori]

I myself would not commit any code infractions if I did side work but the real deal is those whom are unqualified to begin with. My union has two classes of electricians, the 'A' and the 'R' . the latter was set up as residential whom were not allowed to work on any industrial or federal, these guys were sent to two years of school where an A man went to 5. A lot of the r fellows do side work because their pay scale is so low not to mention the A guys I come across that are also unqualified and ride the bench taking jobs here and there and making the the first layoff.
Then we can take about a hall in NC that is selling A tickets and sending them out to work as travelers since they aren't welcome in their own local - not that they ever have any work anyway.
The feild is ripe with guys whom can take orders from the boss and work as directed but they do not know the code or care to nor are their work ethics very good

 

[George Stolz]

Then we can talk about a hall in NC...

Actually, union discussions are prohibited around here. Emotions run strongly on both sides of the fence, so the subject is avoided to avoid hurt feelings to either side. They each have their advantages and disadvantages, and I imagine affiliation plays little role in regards to sidework.

 

[satcom]

"I imagine affiliation plays little role in regards to sidework"

Side work can impact all size contractors, and both commercial, and industrial customers, there are no borders, and excluding anyone with a union affiliation, or avoiding the issue in my opinion is excluding a large segment of the electrical industry, everyones loss, should we keep all discussions at a grade school level, of my feelings are hurt, or try to manage it as adults?

"A lot of the r fellows do side work because their pay scale is so low not to mention the A guys I come across that are also unqualified and ride the bench taking jobs here and there"

He just described that, money was the reason some did side work, and informing everyone, that the small contractors, are not the only ones with moonlighting issues.

 

[renosteinke]

Moonlighting

George, I certainly appreciate the importance of keeping away from the union / anti union stuff. I think Tori has stumbled onto something, though.

Some guys seem to see the primary role of licensing, trade associations, and unions as a means to reduce competition. They try to gain control of the trade, and the business through administrative actions ... rather than upon the merits of their work.

I submit, for discussion, that the guys doing "side work", or working unlicensed, act as a check upon the rest of us. They keep us from charging $200 to change a light bulb, or limiting the trade to our relations alone.

Just when does "regulation for the public good" turn into "trade restraint for my pocketbook?"

 

[emahler]

I submit, for discussion, that the guys doing "side work", or working unlicensed, act as a check upon the rest of us. They keep us from charging $200 to change a light bulb, or limiting the trade to our relations alone.

Just when does "regulation for the public good" turn into "trade restraint for my pocketbook?"

when the guy working on the side is violating the law.

If legal expenses to operate a valid business dictate $200 to change a lightbulb, a moonlighter working without the encumberance of those expenses, does not act as a check upon the rest of us. Since a legal contractor would lose money (for arguments sake) by changing the lightbulb for less than $200, that contractor will leave that segment of the industry. That will leave customers with less choice of who to call. That same contractor will probably go after larger projects (those that a moonlighter can not handle) and begin to compete with larger shops for commercial/industrial work. Thereby affecting the commercial guy who see's nothing wrong with residential moonlighting.

 

[Tori]

Sorry George and anyone concerned, it was not my intent to say which is better, I have worked both , plus you may be surprised at my veiws - ie a non union shop has better control of their employees

But rather in talking about moonliters / side work hacks
they are only as good as they are electricians and after working around literily thousands - the feild is ripe with those who are unqualified to do any work "on their own"