new title 24 requirements effective 01-01-14 in calif.......

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
Here's the official blah blah blah from the CEC

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/2013standards/2013_standards_revised_effective_date.html

Remind you of another rollout?
they had compliance software? really? nobody in the -AT class i took
mentioned it... i'll have to see if i can find a copy of that....

it was interesting... after lunch, i stopped by my electrical engineers
office to annoy him, but he already had another contractor annoying
him, so we quietly talked amongst ourselves while the EE sank into
xref hell....

when he found out i had the -AT cert, he wanted to know how to get that,
and i said he can either spend 100 hours of his life having stuff poured in
his ear, or he can just hire me to certify his jobs when it becomes
a requirement... and that ends his having to deal with the whole thing...
said it'd be between $1,200 and $1,500 a day, plus the +$500 admin audit
fee.... we shall see if he is interested... in any event, i'm slammed until
4th of july anyway, so i'm happy with letting the state gnash their teeth
over their software......

i'll bet a cheeseburger that you could put together a ipad app to do it
in about a month, using three 16 year olds to code it.....
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
they had compliance software? really? nobody in the -AT class i took
mentioned it... i'll have to see if i can find a copy of that....

it was interesting... after lunch, i stopped by my electrical engineers
office to annoy him, but he already had another contractor annoying
him, so we quietly talked amongst ourselves while the EE sank into
xref hell....

when he found out i had the -AT cert, he wanted to know how to get that,
and i said he can either spend 100 hours of his life having stuff poured in
his ear, or he can just hire me to certify his jobs when it becomes
a requirement... and that ends his having to deal with the whole thing...
said it'd be between $1,200 and $1,500 a day, plus the +$500 admin audit
fee.... we shall see if he is interested... in any event, i'm slammed until
4th of july anyway, so i'm happy with letting the state gnash their teeth
over their software......

i'll bet a cheeseburger that you could put together a ipad app to do it
in about a month, using three 16 year olds to code it.....
I disagree about the app. Only one 16 y/o or two 14 y/o and only two weeks
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
for what it's worth....

for what it's worth....

TC-A813310 is the last consecutive -AT technician on the website, and it's 12-28.
so, they made the 300 to qualify, if the CEC hadn't put it off for six months.

it'll be interesting to see what the next six months brings with this, as the
qualifications have been met for it to go live unless postponed further.
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
for the ridicule of being a stickler

for the ridicule of being a stickler

I still have not seen compliance with other requirement of the training being accessible throughout the state.

I know CALCTP wants to think it has been, but I would like the official okee dokee from the state.

I'm funny that way
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
I still have not seen compliance with other requirement of the training being accessible throughout the state.

I know CALCTP wants to think it has been, but I would like the official okee dokee from the state.

I'm funny that way
well, yeah.
don't they only have interim acceptance or something like that?
which begs the question.... interim between what, and what?

is there even another horse in the race?

and... is there even anyone else *trying* to become a compliant
source for certified personnel? is there even another horse that
wants to race?

the training locations seem to be clustered around san jose, orange county, and some
community colleges. and the IBEW classes offered to IBEW members are open to
everyone.... additional fees may apply..... so i guess you'd have to define what accessible
thru the state means..... if that is a 30 minute jaunt from home, or pack a lunch, or pack
a change of clothes....? for certain, pack a checkbook.

and i fully support your reluctance to require a certification when the certifiers haven't
been certified. stick to your guns.

just think... if the state never bothered to certify the certifiers, then there would be no
certification possible, and we could just put stuff in, and get paid for it, and move on.

before i drop $500 on a certified check to certify my certification, i'm gonna wait and
see if the certifiers in fact do become certified.
 
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sandsnow

Senior Member
I got the official word from the state on certification threshold. While the "300" may has been met, the other threshold item has NOT been met.

It will take action at a CA Energy Commission business meeting for the second item to be officially met.

BTW. CALCTP still has to submit their full application for acceptance.

Source: Webinar. Recorded version will be available here: http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/2013standards/
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
I got the official word from the state on certification threshold. While the "300" may has been met, the other threshold item has NOT been met.

It will take action at a CA Energy Commission business meeting for the second item to be officially met.

BTW. CALCTP still has to submit their full application for acceptance.

Source: Webinar. Recorded version will be available here: http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/2013standards/
cool... thanks for the information.....
i'll wait before i drop the $500 to register my little one man band....

dimmers are the farthest thing from my mind at this point.....

maybe they will have an attack of sanity and flush the whole thing,
but betting on logical operation of a legislative body is folly.

on the other hand, i'm tinkering with a wireless data logging device
that can give me volt amps, and tie it to a photocell that will allow
me to certify all the lighting loads on a spreadsheet, just by cycling
the lights.

all i need now is a photocell that does a 4-20ma output, that i can
calibrate against a known photocell, and it's just a matter of building
a spreadsheet.

i'm doubling down on the powers that be, being nuts. :p
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
Here's the webpage with the webinars. Res and Non-Res

http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/training/

Go to the Non-Res webinar and cue up to 00:43:00 to hear the talk about certification. Lasts a little over 5 minutes. The buffering took a while for me and was a little frustrating. Sounds like crap on my pc and hard to FF around. Hopefully you will have better luck.

The .pdf download is there with a pretty good look at the highlights.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
The CAL-CTP handbook is out.. 12 pages of CODE of ETHICS

The CAL-CTP handbook is out.. 12 pages of CODE of ETHICS

Wow you Kalifornians need to read the CAL-CTP manual if you are going to be a AT contractor or Tech. It's a dosey. Not for bedtime reading.


[url]https://www.calctp.org/sites/default/files/Acceptance%20Testing%20Policies%20Manual%20Website.pdf

[/URL]
The morons still have not published the cost to the AT contractor for the Quality assurance audit nor do they list the proceedure other than it will be random.
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
Wow you Kalifornians need to read the CAL-CTP manual if you are going to be a AT contractor or Tech. It's a dosey. Not for bedtime reading.


https://www.calctp.org/sites/default/files/Acceptance Testing Policies Manual Website.pdf

The morons still have not published the cost to the AT contractor for the Quality assurance audit nor do they list the proceedure other than it will be random.
thanks. i read it.

hm. yeah, it's about time to pay the $500 registration and put my little concern on the list.
thanks for bringing it up....

you seem to be misinformed.... there is no cost to me personally for a quality assurance audit.
i originally was going to put a paragraph in my contract for this type of work, allowing for
subsequent billing for any audit work required on a customers work..... but that sucks, and
then you have to try and collect it six months later, etc.

so i'll just add $1,000 to my price on all of these that i do, and that will cover it.
and if it doesn't cover it, i'll adjust my price on subsequent jobs so that doesn't happen
again.

i didn't get audited? ok. something for the "oopsie" fund.

i need to get those domains up and working... july is approaching.....

www.calctp-at.com
www.calctp-at.info
www.calctp-at.org

it was funny... nobody connected with this had even bothered to register them. :lol:
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
So you have taken :
The CALCTP systems course
The CALCTP AT technical course
The CALCTP employer/contractors course
The CALCTP business development course


Did you have to sign the CALCTP agreement? or application that states you will comply with all the rules of CALCTP such as the Audit proceedure.

I was told you have to prior to taking the AT courses.

You may have signed it.
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
So you have taken :
The CALCTP systems course
The CALCTP AT technical course
The CALCTP employer/contractors course
The CALCTP business development course


Did you have to sign the CALCTP agreement? or application that states you will comply with all the rules of CALCTP such as the Audit proceedure.

I was told you have to prior to taking the AT courses.

You may have signed it.
employer/contractor and business development were not required
when i asked about them. i spoke to the nice lady in LA who
does the vetting of all applicants. the reason is that i have 100%
compliance with all personnel being trained, as i only have one
personell, and he's had both calctp, and the calctp-at course work
done.

so it's just a matter of writing a check and applying at this point.
i think i'll give them a call tomorrow. i have half a day of dead time
while the termite guy rolls around my eaves, killing the little buggers.

i may even hand carry it in. i've got to go out to boyle heights to bid
something, and tuesday would be as good a day as any.

i really don't get why you are so tweaked on the audit aspect of this...
but it's bordering on some real pathology, based on that you've been
ranting about it for a while now.

as your location has been changed to "moving out" why do you even
give a shit about this? just "move out" and be happy, for god's sake.
 
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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
i really don't get why you are so tweaked on the audit aspect of this...
but it's bordering on some real pathology, based on that you've been
ranting about it for a while now.

as your location has been changed to "moving out" why do you even
give a shit about this? just "move out" and be happy, for god's sake.
I care because as long as I am here doing work it matters. I only do smaller jobs and these will need compliance. One usually has no control over what a owner does once you leave. I once had a customer pull the track limiters out after I was done because of the tripping that occurred because he wanted to install higher wattage lamps.
I ain't going to pay for the customers arrogance.

Secondly I read through the law and the audits are supposed to occur at the time of testing not several months and years later.
 

Fulthrotl

~~Please excuse the mess. Sig under construction~~
an update......

an update......

just got off the phone with the nice folks at CALCTP.

first of july, the program is effective in calif. showtime, as they say.

if you register as a CALCTP-AT contractor, with one office, the fee
is $500, and that is good for three years.

approximately 20% of the work done, will be audited. the audit will
be either a paperwork review, or a site audit. the audit charge will
be in the neighborhood of $200. bid accordingly.

if you call the toll free calctp help line, you will most likely get to
talk to Leslie. she is very helpful, and will also be the person processing
your application, so behave yourself. don't annoy her.

have fun.
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
I am assuming that the agenda item was passed at the meeting yesterday. Below is the item from the agenda. Just curious, did Leslie state that the agenda item was passed? The minutes of the meeting have not been posted. I don't see an announcement on the 2013 Standards homepage. It's a little soon to expect anything though.

INDUSTRY CERTIFICATION THRESHOLD FOR LIGHTING CONTROLSACCEPTANCE TEST TECHNICIAN AND EMPLOYER CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS. Proposedresolution finding that the required conditions have been met for the Number ofCertified Lighting Acceptance Test Technicians as set forth in Section10-103-A(b)1 and for Industry Coverage by Certification Providers as set forthin 10-103-A(b)2 of the 2013 Building Energy Efficiency Standards; anddetermining that, upon consideration of factors such as certification costs,certification marketing materials, prequalification criteria, classavailability, and curriculum, that reasonable access to certification has been providedby Certification Providers approved by the Energy Commission. Contact: TavCommins. (15 minutes)
 
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