Pass or Fail Real Life

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I have done installations that looked the same and luckily for me the inspectors let common sense prevail. :cool:

Bob
There is no real safety issue with this install, until some unknowing whit starts working there and has no clue. Maybe he pulls a cable or two out of the panel and one arcs over time, a fire starts, and damages, lets say $100,000 occur. Now a forensic comes in and they develop a case by finding violations, not just this violation. This would only be a small part of it.

The inspector who asks for a correction is not only picky, but he may eventually save a poor soul from some stupid court case in the future...when you least expect it.
or
nothing ever happens, it is a roll of the dice.



My question to anyone is:
Is it so difficult or expensive to make this repair this repair?
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
My question to anyone is:
Is it so difficult or expensive to make this repair this repair?
Of course not, simply laziness.

Everyone is actually saying the same thing, "It's no big deal". If it's no big deal and it's a simple repair then just how much trouble would it be to do it right the first time?

An inspector is given a certain amount of latitude if correcting a code violation is going to be cost prohibitive and there is no real danger ( this is just common sense ). But to let a violatin slide just because an electrician is lazy is taking things a little to far.

If the guy gets failed on this job then the next time he will secure those cables because he will not know if the inspectors will let things slide or not and it's better for him just to have things done right the first time.

If there are really that many sloppy electricians out there that think this is not necessary then they should submit it as a change in future codes.
 

mpd

Senior Member
And you failed to answer mine.

Why do you think you have less choice then a cop about what you enforce?
they really having nothing to do with each other but i will try, if a police officer gives someone a warning for speeding, that is the end of it the speeder goes on his way with a warning. if i miss something or decide to use your common sense real world NEC and i get a complaint from an owner about a missed violation, the violation has to be made code compliant, i can't tell the owner i gave him a warning, so how would you handle it. and like i said if your ok with an inspector using his own common sense code there should be no complaints about inspector violations
 
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nakulak

Senior Member
Why has nobody given thought to the fact that the cables ARE supported within the connector? The clamp holds the wire firmly.
have you reread the code section in question ? it specifies securing and supporting. what section are you reading that says it's ok not to secure the cables the correct distances specified from the enclosure ?
 

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Good example.

Police witness things that happen that are periods in time and are not tangible. If you go through a stop sign and there is not an accident, crime yes, but no consequence.

A non-compliant installation is tangible and will last until it is corrected by someone.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Police witness things that happen that are periods in time and are not tangible. If you go through a stop sign and there is not an accident, crime yes, but no consequence.

A non-compliant installation is tangible and will last until it is corrected by someone.
You should be a politician because that is some pretty serious spin.:grin:

I was not aware if there is nothing tangible after committing a crime then I have not committed a crime. I am pretty sure 'attempted' robbery is a crime even when nothing has happened.
 

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
You should be a politician because that is some pretty serious spin.:grin:

I was not aware if there is nothing tangible after committing a crime then I have not committed a crime. I am pretty sure 'attempted' robbery is a crime even when nothing has happened.
No spin, just that common sense you keep eluding to.

A traffic cop sits eating his donut and coffee and witnesses someone roll through a stop sign. Nothing happened as a result of that incident, the car drives on and the cop decides not to pursue the violator. It now becomes history and will never result in a problem since we can't go back in time yet.

An electrical code violation has an actual physical existence and has the potential of burning down a house in the future.

Still, there is no reason whatsoever that an EC who is being paid to perform a service that is required to be NEC compliant should be anything but compliant. There are ways to get some of these codes changed if you don't agree with them.

Has any of the code panels accepted a change yet that has verbage in it such as "common sense"?

Common sense tells me ECs want inspectors to use common sense on non-compliant installations when it benefits the EC.
 

elohr46

Senior Member
Location
square one
The cables need to be secured to be code compliant according to the NEC, the customer should get what they paid for. Most customers would not be aware of this and depend on the expertise of the EC they hired to do the work.
 

mpd

Senior Member
The cables need to be secured to be code compliant according to the NEC, the customer should get what they paid for. Most customers would not be aware of this and depend on the expertise of the EC they hired to do the work.

you are correct, everyone is entitled to a code compliant home, and most homeowners are a lot more educated about this these days, and if they are not, the next elec. contr. that works in his house will be sure point the violations out, and tell the owner that should not have passed inspection, of course we all know that never happens in the common sense real world.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
An electrical code violation has an actual physical existence and has the potential of burning down a house in the future.
If that were the case, then a lot more houses would be burning down because I see lots of code violations much more serious than the one shown on a regular basis.

There is nothing in the picture that is even remotely hazardous or could burn a house down. Once again, I say much ado about nothing.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
If that were the case, then a lot more houses would be burning down because I see lots of code violations much more serious than the one shown on a regular basis.

There is nothing in the picture that is even remotely hazardous or could burn a house down. Once again, I say much ado about nothing.
Anyone who wears a seat belt when driving needs a code-compliant house, and vice versa.
 

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
If that were the case, then a lot more houses would be burning down because I see lots of code violations much more serious than the one shown on a regular basis.

There is nothing in the picture that is even remotely hazardous or could burn a house down. Once again, I say much ado about nothing.
And why do you routinely see more serious violations?

Because inspectors are becoming lax which in return allows the ECs to become even more lax which results in a weakening of the industry.

No matter how small you think this issue is, it is still written into the code book for a reason and there is no good reason whatsoever that this could and should not be a compliant installation.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
And why do you routinely see more serious violations?

Because inspectors are becoming lax which in return allows the ECs to become even more lax which results in a weakening of the industry.

No matter how small you think this issue is, it is still written into the code book for a reason and there is no good reason whatsoever that this could and should not be a compliant installation.
Most of the very serious violations I see are DIY work that was never inspected and is far more hazardous than the simple and silly violations most EC's get away with on a regular basis, like your first picture.

Otherwise, I think you have a very idealistic view of this trade and industry.
 
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