Quality Work II

[tonyou812]

It's funny because we find things wrong with a neat installation when we could still bash him if the installer did a crappy job. I think it "looks" good. Waste of space? Whatever. Waste of time? Whatever. Was there pride behind it? Yeah, there was. Minimum bending radius? Do you really see that as a concern? Two wires under one staple? Are you nitpicking? I could probably show you an installation totally opposite of what was posted. Then the bashings may be justified. Whoever did it, did it with good work ethic.
Okay, the SE cable isn't strapped, but someone took the time to make the job look nifty. Exposed NM, well, it passed inspection. Waste of space for what???
Somebody took the time to may it look organized. I think it looks fine. Of course we could of piped it in, but what's done is done. I hope like heck there is no domestic issues with axes and chainsaws

I dont think it has to do with the work itself.... but everyone has a different interpertaion of what is a smart install. From my experiance its never a good idea to block all paths to a panel on the first install. So i guess there will never be a need to add something to that installation?
I mean that thought had to cross the installers mind? Or is he that narsasistic and thinks he has covered all bases.

 

[iwire]

I understand that Bob. If you wanted outside work done at your own residence, and you did the work yourself, wouldn't you use it?

Pipe dope?

No, not unless I was certain it would not inhibit the electrical connection so no I would not.

As far as water intrusion I plan for it, I assume all outdoor conduits and boxes will get water in them and I make sure I arrange to drain as required by 225.22. :smile:

I also follow the code and use type W conductors when they will be exposed to water. :smile:

Think of a typical NEMA 3R meter socket, it is kind of water proof but they still put plenty of drain holes in it anyway.

 

[iwire]

There's still plenty of metal to metal contact when any fitting is made up wrench tight. The dope just pushes out of the way and fills in the gaps.

You assume.

Not to mention what the code requires.

 

[mdshunk]

You assume..

Nope. A DLRO takes all doubt from my mind.

 

[iwire]

Nope. A DLRO takes all doubt from my mind.

Your the coolest EC in the block, to take your time and check everyone of your conduit installations with a DLRO.

What result is passing and what is failing, where did you find these figures?

Does that also mean it meets the NEC requirements?

 

[ohm]

Pipe dope?

No, not unless I was certain it would not inhibit the electrical connection so no I would not.

As far as water intrusion I plan for it, I assume all outdoor conduits and boxes will get water in them and I make sure I arrange to drain as required by 225.22. :smile:

I also follow the code and use type W conductors when they will be exposed to water. :smile:

Think of a typical NEMA 3R meter socket, it is kind of water proof but they still put plenty of drain holes in it anyway.

I agree Bob, if the NEC wanted to trap condensation or prevent water intrusion they would have required tapered couplings not straight.

Further, I never use duct seal on the bottom of a WP box, to allow drainage. Our POCO says the always expect their burried conduit to be filled with water.

 

[mdshunk]

Your the coolest EC in the block,...

See, I knew you'd come around.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Pipe dope prevents water leaks (and good electrical conductivity) and is not allowed on conduit threads, per 300.6 (A). Conductive anti-corrosion compound i.e. Kopr-Shield etc., may be used on field-cut conduit threads.

Pipe dope itself does not really prevent water leaks on plumbing pipe. Its main purpose is to provide lubrication so that the male and female tapered threads can be tightened enough to provide the metal to metal contact that actually does make the seal. Its secondary purpose is to fill small imperfections in the metal at the points of metal to metal contact to improve the seal. As far as it preventing good electrical contact, I disagree. It provides more metal to metal contact and may actually improve the electrical conductivity.

 

[danickstr]

I am glad the inspector did not bust the OP on radii, since the actual wire is a 12 gauge, and I doubt the 5 times rule has actually been violated, using only the actual wire and not the bulk of sheathing.

What would be the trouble of making doped connections if you use a ground wire, as if it were sch. 80? Why metal then? Superior protection, of course. plastic doesn't stop backhoes as well.

 

[jeremysterling]

As for the OP: The install is adequate for the purpose and worthy of a picture and post. Good job.

As for the OT: I dress my field threads with cold galv. Once the paint is dry, I use this electrically conductive "pipe dope" screw thread lubricant by crouse-hinds called STL-8

 

[ohm]

Pipe dope itself does not really prevent water leaks on plumbing pipe. Its main purpose is to provide lubrication so that the male and female tapered threads can be tightened enough to provide the metal to metal contact that actually does make the seal. Its secondary purpose is to fill small imperfections in the metal at the points of metal to metal contact to improve the seal. As far as it preventing good electrical contact, I disagree. It provides more metal to metal contact and may actually improve the electrical conductivity.

Locktite pipe dope is advertised to seal pipe threads to 500 PSIG initially then to thousands of pounds after it cures. They say it is prefered over TFE tape which will allow pipe to be overtightened and fail. Other websites mention the dielectric properties of pipe dope.

Another good thread on conduit threading is the Mike Holt discussion on 6/26/06. Oh..you're aware of that one!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Locktite pipe dope is advertised to seal pipe threads to 500 PSIG initially then to thousands of pounds after it cures. They say it is prefered over TFE tape which will allow pipe to be overtightened and fail. Other websites mention the dielectric properties of pipe dope.

Another good thread on conduit threading is the Mike Holt discussion on 6/26/06. Oh..you're aware of that one!

I would really doubt that you can get enough non-conductive pipe dope between the threads of plumbing pipe, where both the male and female threads are tapered, to change the conductivity of the connection.
There are a number of types of threads used in the piping industry, but a number of them
depend mostly on metal to metal contact between the male and female threads with the dope filling minor defects in the threads.

 

[peter d]

The guy I apprenticed under used a reddish-pink paste called "red lead". I haven't seen it for sale since the late 80's.

It's still available. My dad has several cans of it in his basement that he got from a local paint manufacturer. It's available only to the marine trade as it obviously contains lead.

 

[mdshunk]

It's still available. My dad has several cans of it in his basement that he got from a local paint manufacturer. It's available only to the marine trade as it obviously contains lead.

Cool. Post pictures. That stuff does sorta smell like paint too.

 

[iwire]

I have had jobs with Red Lead in the specs, I had no idea what it was, we did not need it anyway as the specs went beyond the scope of the job.

 

[Sparky555]

There's no doubt the work in the picture of the OP is neat & workmanlike. If it were in my own home I'd pull it apart & rework it like the one in Larry's photo so I could add a subpanel & surge protector.

 

[iaov]

It does look great.

It's also absurd.

I agree. Layed out much more like a PLC panel than a resi install. Lots of wasted space and time. Any new circuit installations will ruin the symetry.

 

[George Stolz]

I am glad the inspector did not bust the OP on radii, since the actual wire is a 12 gauge, and I doubt the 5 times rule has actually been violated, using only the actual wire and not the bulk of sheathing.

But the language is "The radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend during or after installation shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable." That refers to the cable, not the conductors contained inside the cable.

Also, check out Note 9 to Chapter 9:

(9) A multiconductor cable or flexible cord of two or more conductors shall be treated as a single conductor for calculating percentage conduit fill area. For cables that have elliptical cross sections, the cross-sectional area calculation shall be based on using the major diameter of the ellipse as a circle diameter.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

As for the OP: The install is adequate for the purpose and worthy of a picture and post. Good job.

As for the OT: I dress my field threads with cold galv. Once the paint is dry, I use this electrically conductive "pipe dope" screw thread lubricant by crouse-hinds called STL-8

Are you sure that product is electrically conductive? I though it was a petroleum jelly type product.

 

[mdshunk]

Are you sure that product is electrically conductive? I though it was a petroleum jelly type product.

The MSDS lists the two main ingredients as petroleum oil and Lithium hydroxy stearate as the thickener.
From what I was able to look up, lithium hydroxy stearate is quite conductive, with a conductivity almost the same as aluminium.