Sidework

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LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Here's the flaw with your thinking - just because you open a business contracting for work, doesn't entitle you the exclusive right to it. Part of your business requires you hire skilled people. Skilled people whose product value is transportable. Further, a customer wants electrical work done. Not to have to be forced to support a shop super, a dispatcher, a receptionist, or the local yellow pages ad salesman. Why should a residential service call requiring one breaker, have to pay in part for a warehouse full of conduit?


Why do you purchase material wholesale, cutting out the supply house when you need 10,000 2x4 layins? What about the supply house's overhead?

Ever go grocery shopping at a wholesale club? What about those poor local grocers? Aren't they entitled to a piece of that action?
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illegal immigrants have rights too:rolleyes:...

jesus man, what are you smoking?....
 
BryanMD said:
"Legal trunk slammers" The one truck EC?

I love it! ;)
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no, the guy who has a license and basic insurance, but has a full time gig and just does this on the side for extra money...not the 1 truck shops that do this for a living...
 
electricalperson said:
sidework will always be a big part of my career. i love what i do and i want to do it as much as i can.
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but you don't love it enough to go about it legally and do whats right...you and lawnguy should hang out together...
 
If you are competing with people doing sidework you are in the wrong market. Those people will have someone they know who kinda knows electrical do it before they pay a EC. I've worked for a sorta hard nosed EC who didn't care if his employees did sidework. Most of your work should be for general contractors who can't pull a electrical permit or for homeowners that want a legit contractor. Jo shmo sideworker can't pull permits in most places. If your competing for the scraps at the bottom you're doing something wrong.
 
emahler said:
..not the 1 truck shops that do this for a living...
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I work for a legit one truck EC (I'm the sole employee) and believe me when I tell you that it's a struggle to compete in this market (residential, light commercial). I know first hand what it's like to compete against the moonlighters.
 
wireman71 said:
Jo shmo sideworker can't pull permits in most places. If your competing for the scraps at the bottom you're doing something wrong.
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A 6k basement remodel or 3K service change or say 16k for a rewire may seem like scraps but it does add up.

There are some very large and successful companies also fighting for these scraps.

Just becasue a job is required to have a permit doesn't mean it gets one.
 
emahler said:
but you don't love it enough to go about it legally and do whats right...you and lawnguy should hang out together...
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im looking for liability insurance as we speak. id hang out with lawnguy he seems like a cool guy. we can talk code:grin:
 
wireman71 said:
If you are competing with people doing sidework you are in the wrong market. Those people will have someone they know who kinda knows electrical do it before they pay a EC. I've worked for a sorta hard nosed EC who didn't care if his employees did sidework. Most of your work should be for general contractors who can't pull a electrical permit or for homeowners that want a legit contractor. Jo shmo sideworker can't pull permits in most places. If your competing for the scraps at the bottom you're doing something wrong.
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Amen brother!

Maybe if more of the established EC's paid a better wage (some do but face it most don't) their employee's would be happy to put their tools down at the end of the day and not NEEEEEEED to find that extra $600 bucks for the oil bill (or whatever).

And more of their senior guys wouldn't be tempted to go out on their own.

And more of them would make an *effort* to find and turn in the trunk slammers.

hmmm.
 
I used to do side work thinking I was only taking work from non union co. since my union did not do houses -
there fore it was sanctioned by my line of thinking


We are under paid though - I have given thought to changing trades to union elevator member - they have one sweet package :roll:
 
wireman71 said:
If you are competing with people doing sidework you are in the wrong market. Those people will have someone they know who kinda knows electrical do it before they pay a EC. I've worked for a sorta hard nosed EC who didn't care if his employees did sidework. Most of your work should be for general contractors who can't pull a electrical permit or for homeowners that want a legit contractor. Jo shmo sideworker can't pull permits in most places. If your competing for the scraps at the bottom you're doing something wrong.
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well, lets think about this for a second...according to the latest study by [Electrical Contractor Magazine...

62% of all EC's have from 1-9 employees
68% of all EC's have annual revenue of less than $1mil
42% of all EC's have annual revenue of less than $250,000
(think about that one for a minute)

so, according to your thinking, all these legitimate EC's that make a living on the small service and repair work, are in the wrong market?

if you were a contractor, you would know that one of the worst markets for a small contractor to go into is working for small GC's...this is one of the best ways to go out of business...

if you are in the 38% of companies that have 10 or more employees, go after larger GC's that actually know what they are doing...

for the other 62% of contractors (especially the 42% that are under $250k) don't worry about sidejobbers, they are only doing work you don't want...

this is why i'm against the code requiring TR receptacles, let darwinism do it's job folks...
 
Tori said:
We are under paid though - I have given thought to changing trades to union elevator member - they have one sweet package :roll:
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I'm thinking about becoming a plumber, or better yet, a crane operator. ;)
 
electricalperson said:
this is an angry thread.
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Not really. I'm not angry at all. If I could name one thing that I feel it's disappointment that for all the good things this trade has to offer, it falls flat in some key areas.
 
BryanMD said:
Amen brother!

Maybe if more of the established EC's paid a better wage (some do but face it most don't) their employee's would be happy to put their tools down at the end of the day and not NEEEEEEED to find that extra $600 bucks for the oil bill (or whatever).

And more of their senior guys wouldn't be tempted to go out on their own.

And more of them would make an *effort* to find and turn in the trunk slammers.

hmmm.
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Ya just don't see the whole picture, do ya?

the majority of contractors are small, and are competing for work with sidejobbers and uneducated contractors...How do you pay a guy more, when someone else is always driving market prices down?

sidejobbers definitely help to lower the perceived value of what we do, thereby lowering the actual money people will pay us for what we do...

ahhh, it's falling on deaf ears...those that understand, do...those that don't, probably never will...

have at it folks...we no longer do resi, so what do I care anymore...:rolleyes:
 
emahler said:
62% of all EC's have from 1-9 employees
68% of all EC's have annual revenue of less than $1mil
42% of all EC's have annual revenue of less than $250,000
(think about that one for a minute)
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Off point but those numbers are *useless*

62% of all EC's have from 1-9 employees
assuming that the first 1 is the owner...

it needs to be broken down a LOT further
1+ 1 PT helper
1+ 1 FT helper
1+ 1 FT apprentice
1+ 1 FT journeyman

etc etc
 
emahler,

Thanks for putting into words what I don't have the experience and know-how to say in this thread. So now I suppose I can forgive you for your remarks about me being Bob's minion. ;) :D
 
BryanMD said:
Off point but those numbers are *useless*

62% of all EC's have from 1-9 employees
assuming that the first 1 is the owner...

it needs to be broken down a LOT further
1+ 1 PT helper
1+ 1 FT helper
1+ 1 FT apprentice
1+ 1 FT journeyman

etc etc
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i'll call the owner of EC mag, (all us wealthy owners know eachother) and tell him to fix that immediately...I'm sure they will jump right on it...

rationalize all you wish...the fact is, the majority of electrical contracting companies in this country have to deal with people doing side jobs everyday...
 
peter d said:
emahler,

Thanks for putting into words what I don't have the experience and know-how to say in this thread. So now I suppose I can forgive you for your remarks about me being Bob's minion. ;) :D
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I didn't say you were Bob's minion, I said you were kissing up to him:D

sometimes i can put a few words together...thanks...btw- good thread
 
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