jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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- ESI, PI, RBO
Never! That is why people who want to learn never come back.
What Is Electrical Grounding?
- Thread starter jxofaltrds
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Never! That is why people who want to learn never come back.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
:roll:You're not getting that I was just attempting a little humor.
But I don't think non members can vote in polls, nor see the results anyway.
Nuff said, I'm done!
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Ditto
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I was tempted to vote true just to be ornery.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
:roll:You're not getting that I was just attempting a little humor.
But I don't think non members can vote in polls, nor see the results anyway.
Nuff said, I'm done!
That's funny, I thought about it too.
Roger
Don't take me too seriously - most of the time you don't anyway!
joebell
Senior Member
- Location
- New Hampshire
The guy that wrote the article of course:lol:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It remains my opinion that this type of confusion continues to exist mainly because most everything in the code that uses the word "grounding" is really "bonding", and far too few code users understand the difference.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Could we say grounding is what you are doing and bonding is how it is done?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I would prefer the language convention be adopted such that "grounding" only is used if planet Earth is involved, and "bonding" is used when we are talking about metal to metal connections. The two concepts really have very little in common, other than their ability to confuse people who use the terms.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I agree with Charlie...if the term includes the word "grounding" then that should indicate a direct physical connection to a grounding electrode. Everything is is bonding.
The connection to earth is not an important part of what an EGC is really for. The important part of that conductor is bonding the non current carrying conductive parts back to the system grounded conductor via the main or system bonding jumper as the case may be. The EGC will do its job even if the system has no connection to earth.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
And it is my opinion that that confusion is exactly what leads to statements like the one that is the subject of this thread.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Grounding as a circuit path, wiring method, code citation, only matters to about .016% of the population. For everyone else, the other 99.984% of the population, grounding is a naming convention, it is just what you call something.
I would say what the population calls grounding or grounded is, something is connected to and maintained at the zero voltage level of the earth. And since everything is expected to be grounded, they, the 99%er's, are expected to be safe from stray voltage and safe from voltage potentials between grounded surfaces because all metal surfaces in their reach are grounded.
It's a premise to be tested. You can ask 99% of the population if grounding will trip a breaker and I would guess most will not know or care. Ask them if grounding means connected to the earth and now you're asking about something that their life depends on for safety.
Of course from a circuit perspective this is not true in practice. In lightning strikes and utility voltage levels, there can and will be voltage gradients along the ground path as the current travels to ground.
But trying to change the name of something that the population widely uses as an identifier, it could be like trying to rename the sun, let's call it something else.
From a circuit perspective, the quoted statement is not well written. But from the perspective of agreeing with the definition already held in the eyes of the public, the alignment is likely pretty close. The ground wire will keep the metal surface at the same potential as the earth and the breaker will trip in the process. It is the name of something, a safety method that includes the earth, especially in the eyes of the 99% who would have a hard time drawing the circuit path for a two cell flashlight.
Should add that to an electrician, grounded means it is connected to the equipment grounding busbar where the load receives its source, which is eventually bonded back to the grounding electrode. So grounded would mean the EGC and not the GEC. The GEC is not bonded to the grounding electrode, it is grounded to the grounding electrode.
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- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Switching from grounding to bonding would be as pleasant as switching to the metric system. Let's start putting bonding conductor in parenthesis after equipment grounding conductor everywhere to introduce the term and give it some context. Oh joy!
Change the term equipment grounding to bonding; so what. It won't help anybody know what is important about establishing an effective fault path, and why it is important to only having one place in the electrical system where the equipment grounding conductors are bonded to the grounded conductor. All you have done is add another term to muddle up the conversation or texts.
Change the term equipment grounding to bonding; so what. It won't help anybody know what is important about establishing an effective fault path, and why it is important to only having one place in the electrical system where the equipment grounding conductors are bonded to the grounded conductor. All you have done is add another term to muddle up the conversation or texts.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
This is the all pervasive "popular" meme, and it is simply wrong when a normally un-energized conductive surface on the load side of the Main Bonding Jumper comes in contact with an energized conductor, which is the example cited in the poll quote.
In my opinion, the editorial directive to "keep it simple" propagates this myth, and, in so doing, sets up the person attempting their own wiring beyond their understanding to be lead to build dangerous installations.
The editor responsible for repeating this meme / myth needs to elicit the informed perspective of a knowledgeable electrical expert and craft a more nuanced description of grounding, and expect that the simple idea of "unwanted electricity" is actually more than one thing and is handled in more than one way in the modern Premises Wiring System.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The word "grounding" means, even to many electricians a connection to the earth and many believe that this connection to earth is all that is needed to make a system safe. They think that connection of the equipment to earth will clear a fault and they think that connecting the equipment to earth will keep the equipment and the earth at the same potential.
Removing the word "grounding" should help with these issues. I have been told that the Canadian Electrical Code made this change a number of code cycles and some of their instructors have said that the change has eliminate much of the confusion for their students.
Removing the word "grounding" should help with these issues. I have been told that the Canadian Electrical Code made this change a number of code cycles and some of their instructors have said that the change has eliminate much of the confusion for their students.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Do you know if the Canadians went all in and changed all the references in their code? If the NEC were willing to do that I would be more supportive. The mess we are getting into now IMO makes things harder to explain.
I still think- earth, grounded conductor, and equipment grounding are all the vocabulary we need. Nearly all of us already use these terms and have a clear understanding of what they mean. The rest is understanding electrical systems whatever the terms. I know the tide is against me on this, so if we are going change then go all out and get it done.
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