Inspection question.

[xptpcrewx]

I think his point is that there is stuff that is right, there is stuff that is legal, and they do not necessarily overlap congruently.

Figured that much. Just not inclined to take advice from someone who has been to court "many times".

 

[Jon456]

I don’t see why. I’m just advocating for doing the right thing. I doubt the inspector is requiring installing GFCI outlets. GFCI protection in the panel perhaps.

Imagine being contracted to replace a panel and YOU unilaterally decide you're going to "do the right thing" and fill that panel with GFCI breakers (beyond the scope of the contract and the permit) without a full assessment of the home's complete electrical system. And you end up killing an occupant as a result...

Texas and GFCIs for A/C

This will be of interest to the Texas sparkys: TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING & REGULATION On Tuesday, May 18, the Texas Commission of Licensing and Regulation held an emergency meeting in response to an imminent threat to public health and safety. It has been found that compliance with...

forums.mikeholt.com

 

[xptpcrewx]

Imagine being contracted to replace a panel and YOU unilaterally decide you're going to "do the right thing" and fill that panel with GFCI breakers (beyond the scope of the contract and the permit) without a full assessment of the home's complete electrical system. And you end up killing an occupant as a result...

Texas and GFCIs for A/C

This will be of interest to the Texas sparkys: TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING & REGULATION On Tuesday, May 18, the Texas Commission of Licensing and Regulation held an emergency meeting in response to an imminent threat to public health and safety. It has been found that compliance with...

forums.mikeholt.com

Now imaging killing the same occupant because GFCI protection was not provided. The only thing that would protect you in either case is if you did your due diligence.

 

[xptpcrewx]

Adding gfci protection for a service change isn't the 'right thing'. Unless it's a local requirement, it isn't required and the inspector shouldn't be asking for it. If a contractor wants to go above and beyond, they certainly can, but don't pass it off on the customer as a requirement.

Its the "right thing" if you want to bring your building to current safety standards.

 

[petersonra]

Now imaging killing the same occupant because GFCI protection was not provided. The only thing that would protect you in either case is if you did your due diligence.

Exactly how could you possibly be made responsible for work you were not contracted to do?

 

[Jon456]

Now imaging killing the same occupant because GFCI protection was not provided.

There was no GFCI protection in the 60+ years of occupancy before you got involved and you were not contracted nor permitted to add GFCI protection. So your panel change-out has zero impact (morally or legally) on any unlikely death subsequently resulting from lack of GFCI protection.

BUT if you modified the home's system by adding unauthorized GFCI equipment that resulted in an air conditioning or furnace failure and that failure resulted in a death, then YOU CAUSED THAT DEATH and you are both morally and legally liable for it.

 

[Jon456]

Its the "right thing" if you want to bring your building to current safety standards.

While you're at it, you should also retrofit air bags into the homeowner's pre-1998 cars. It's the "right thing to do."

Btw, it's not YOUR building.

 

[xptpcrewx]

Exactly how could you possibly be made responsible for work you were not contracted to do?

101.4.10 Electrical. The provisions of Chapter 27 of the Florida Building Code, Building Volume, and Part VIII - Electrical, of the Florida Building Code Residential Volume, 7 th Edition (2020) shall apply to the installation of electrical systems, including alterations, repairs, replacement, equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings and appurtenances thereto.

Rule 1: For a contract to be enforceable, it must comply with the law.

 

[xptpcrewx]

While you're at it, you should also retrofit air bags into the homeowner's pre-1998 cars. It's the "right thing to do."

No need to be sarcastic about it. If you don't agree that's fine. Its not an attack on your ethos. Everyone is comfortable with taking varying levels of risk.

 

[petersonra]

101.4.10 Electrical. The provisions of Chapter 27 of the Florida Building Code, Building Volume, and Part VIII - Electrical, of the Florida Building Code Residential Volume, 7 th Edition (2020) shall apply to the installation of electrical systems, including alterations, repairs, replacement, equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings and appurtenances thereto.

Rule 1: For a contract to be enforceable, it must comply with the law.

nowhere does it say anything about being required to do work beyond your contracted limits. where would this stop? there are a LOT of things that over the years have changed. if you change out an outlet do you have to make the whole electrical system compliant with whatever code they are observing now?

 

[NTesla76]

Its the "right thing" if you want to bring your building to current safety standards.

So where do you stop? Go ahead and spend your customers money unnecessarily, but make sure you tell them you want their building to current safety standards.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[Jon456]

By Xp's logic, anytime a contractor touches any part of a building, he would have to bring it entirely up to current standards. Since standards are updated every two years, practically every building in the country is non-compliant within a couple of years after being built. So every building older than two years would have to be overhauled top-to-bottom any time any work is done on it. Insanity.

 

[xptpcrewx]

By Xp's logic, anytime a contractor touches any part of a building, he would have to bring it entirely up to current standards. Since standards are updated every two years, practically every building in the country is non-compliant within a couple of years after being built. So every building older than two years would have to be overhauled top-to-bottom any time any work is done on it. Insanity.

That’s not what I’m suggesting. See post #28.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jon456]

That’s not what I’m suggesting. See post #28.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So what is "reasonably affected" by replacing a 15A fuse with a 15A breaker? And if you choose to arbitrarily upgrade some parts of the home's system and not others, how do you decide (and legally defend) those arbitrary decisions?

 

[romex jockey]

Most that I get who are fine with "whatever it takes" to be compliant have been burned by a handiman in the past who provided noncompliant or unsafe work.

MH is going to need a bigger website for me to even begin to respond to that Fred ~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

if you have been to court "many" times, you are doing something wrong.

Over the course of decades, contractors will run into 'bad apples' Pete.

And yes, i'm still cultivating that 'spidey sense' to aviod them

~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

Are you saying your contract provisions work or don't work?

I'm saying they didn't work for me XPT

That doesn't mean they won't for the next contractor

Further, once one dukes it out in court , one can get a rather different impression of how the system really works

Here's a good one for you, i've even been screwed by a collection agency

Further, I've had customers hauled off by federal officials , as well as experienced state officials put the boots to small biz's for political gain over a federal $$$

~R (i shoulda learned to play that guitar, shoulda learned to play them drums)J~

 

[romex jockey]

Rule 1: For a contract to be enforceable, it must comply with the law.

meadow muffins XP

~RJ~

 

[ggunn]

Further, once one dukes it out in court , one can get a rather different impression of how the system really works

What I learned by doing is that getting a judgement in court is one thing but collecting on that judgement is another thing altogether.

 

[stew]

Did he cite a code reference? Or is it his own code. Own codes dont fly.