Inspection question.

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
I don’t see why. I’m just advocating for doing the right thing. I doubt the inspector is requiring installing GFCI outlets. GFCI protection in the panel perhaps.
Imagine being contracted to replace a panel and YOU unilaterally decide you're going to "do the right thing" and fill that panel with GFCI breakers (beyond the scope of the contract and the permit) without a full assessment of the home's complete electrical system. And you end up killing an occupant as a result...

 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
Imagine being contracted to replace a panel and YOU unilaterally decide you're going to "do the right thing" and fill that panel with GFCI breakers (beyond the scope of the contract and the permit) without a full assessment of the home's complete electrical system. And you end up killing an occupant as a result...

Now imaging killing the same occupant because GFCI protection was not provided. The only thing that would protect you in either case is if you did your due diligence.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
Adding gfci protection for a service change isn't the 'right thing'. Unless it's a local requirement, it isn't required and the inspector shouldn't be asking for it. If a contractor wants to go above and beyond, they certainly can, but don't pass it off on the customer as a requirement.
Its the "right thing" if you want to bring your building to current safety standards.
 

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Now imaging killing the same occupant because GFCI protection was not provided.
There was no GFCI protection in the 60+ years of occupancy before you got involved and you were not contracted nor permitted to add GFCI protection. So your panel change-out has zero impact (morally or legally) on any unlikely death subsequently resulting from lack of GFCI protection.

BUT if you modified the home's system by adding unauthorized GFCI equipment that resulted in an air conditioning or furnace failure and that failure resulted in a death, then YOU CAUSED THAT DEATH and you are both morally and legally liable for it.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
Exactly how could you possibly be made responsible for work you were not contracted to do?

101.4.10 Electrical. The provisions of Chapter 27 of the Florida Building Code, Building Volume, and Part VIII - Electrical, of the Florida Building Code Residential Volume, 7 th Edition (2020) shall apply to the installation of electrical systems, including alterations, repairs, replacement, equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings and appurtenances thereto.

Rule 1: For a contract to be enforceable, it must comply with the law.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
While you're at it, you should also retrofit air bags into the homeowner's pre-1998 cars. It's the "right thing to do." 🙄😒
No need to be sarcastic about it. If you don't agree that's fine. Its not an attack on your ethos. Everyone is comfortable with taking varying levels of risk.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
101.4.10 Electrical. The provisions of Chapter 27 of the Florida Building Code, Building Volume, and Part VIII - Electrical, of the Florida Building Code Residential Volume, 7 th Edition (2020) shall apply to the installation of electrical systems, including alterations, repairs, replacement, equipment, appliances, fixtures, fittings and appurtenances thereto.

Rule 1: For a contract to be enforceable, it must comply with the law.
nowhere does it say anything about being required to do work beyond your contracted limits. where would this stop? there are a LOT of things that over the years have changed. if you change out an outlet do you have to make the whole electrical system compliant with whatever code they are observing now?
 

NTesla76

Senior Member
Location
IA
Occupation
Electrics
Its the "right thing" if you want to bring your building to current safety standards.
So where do you stop? Go ahead and spend your customers money unnecessarily, but make sure you tell them you want their building to current safety standards.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
 

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
By Xp's logic, anytime a contractor touches any part of a building, he would have to bring it entirely up to current standards. Since standards are updated every two years, practically every building in the country is non-compliant within a couple of years after being built. So every building older than two years would have to be overhauled top-to-bottom any time any work is done on it. Insanity.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
By Xp's logic, anytime a contractor touches any part of a building, he would have to bring it entirely up to current standards. Since standards are updated every two years, practically every building in the country is non-compliant within a couple of years after being built. So every building older than two years would have to be overhauled top-to-bottom any time any work is done on it. Insanity.

That’s not what I’m suggesting. See post #28.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
That’s not what I’m suggesting. See post #28.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So what is "reasonably affected" by replacing a 15A fuse with a 15A breaker? And if you choose to arbitrarily upgrade some parts of the home's system and not others, how do you decide (and legally defend) those arbitrary decisions?
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Most that I get who are fine with "whatever it takes" to be compliant have been burned by a handiman in the past who provided noncompliant or unsafe work.
MH is going to need a bigger website for me to even begin to respond to that Fred ~RJ~
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Are you saying your contract provisions work or don't work?
I'm saying they didn't work for me XPT

That doesn't mean they won't for the next contractor

Further, once one dukes it out in court , one can get a rather different impression of how the system really works

Here's a good one for you, i've even been screwed by a collection agency

Further, I've had customers hauled off by federal officials , as well as experienced state officials put the boots to small biz's for political gain over a federal $$$

~R (i shoulda learned to play that guitar, shoulda learned to play them drums)J~
 
Top