Have any of you transitioned…

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The idea that you should get licensed in something, just because you can do some of the work should be thrown out. Just like in engineering school, consider the application at its extremes. Should you pursue licensing as an auto mechanic, too, since you can work on your car in your off time? How about as a roofer? Plumber, too? Maybe as a trucker, since you rent the occasional U-haul. Nah, you wouldn't do all that. If you want a part time job, do like I do & take on some additional engineering work, part time. Besides, as others have mentioned, it would be a conflict of interest to be an inspector for the same company your the engineer for.
 
tortuga said:
In Oregon the legal definition of the "Practice of engineering"
includes Design and Plan.
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Im not so sure. The parent clause says:

In connection with utilities, structures, buildings, machines, equipment, processes, works or projects, whether private or public, applying special knowledge of the mathematical, physical and engineering sciences to services or original works such as:
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IMO electrical design and load calcs do not take "special knowledge of the mathematical, physical, and engineering sciences."

Im not trying to be argumentative, and I have no experience or knowledge of Oregon specifics, but I personally still dont see electrical design and planning to be considered "engineering" or needing an exemption in the law to be performed by and electrician who is not also a PE.
 
electrofelon said:
Im not so sure. The parent clause says:



IMO electrical design and load calcs do not take "special knowledge of the mathematical, physical, and engineering sciences."

Im not trying to be argumentative, and I have no experience or knowledge of Oregon specifics, but I personally still dont see electrical design and planning to be considered "engineering" or needing an exemption in the law to be performed by and electrician who is not also a PE.
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What do EE PEs do on jobs for say a skyscraper?

I understand Electricians are licensed to install the infrastructure, and EE PE is not.

What can an EE PE do that a Master electrician cannot?

Is this this a case of all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares?

Master electricians can do every aspect of an electrical install but EE PE can only do some? Or is it that a master electrician can do all aspects of the work (design and install) as long it’s his own work?
 
Tip DS said:
The idea that you should get licensed in something, just because you can do some of the work should be thrown out. Just like in engineering school, consider the application at its extremes. Should you pursue licensing as an auto mechanic, too, since you can work on your car in your off time? How about as a roofer? Plumber, too? Maybe as a trucker, since you rent the occasional U-haul. Nah, you wouldn't do all that. If you want a part time job, do like I do & take on some additional engineering work, part time. Besides, as others have mentioned, it would be a conflict of interest to be an inspector for the same company your the engineer for.
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If I was starting a car company and I was a mechanical engineer and I designed every last nut to the car. Then in my company I wanted to build it too, say start a new Tesla, why is it so far fetched that I could want to do both?

If I enjoyed being a roofer, plumber, trucker, why shouldn’t I be able to get licensed and do things legally.

I think this conversation is gearing more towards why we have licenses in the first place.

Part of it is to harbor the safety of the public. Part of it is job security I would say.

Recently, there have been proposals to actually get rid of some PE license requirements or at least make them more lax: https://www.nspe.org/resources/pe-magazine/june-2014/defending-the-license

But people were against it since it provides job security, a credential that only allows people that have it to do certain things.
 
W@ttson said:
What do EE PEs do on jobs for say a skyscraper?

I understand Electricians are licensed to install the infrastructure, and EE PE is not.

What can an EE PE do that a Master electrician cannot?

Is this this a case of all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares?

Master electricians can do every aspect of an electrical install but EE PE can only do some? Or is it that a master electrician can do all aspects of the work (design and install) as long it’s his own work?
Click to expand...
It would be extremely rare to have a skyscraper or other large building to not be designed by a EE PE. Many areas have no restriction against a licensed electrical contractor design/building it, but it probably never happens.
 
interpretation of state laws is interesting.

wa state has DIY essentially embedded in state constitution (you can do electrical, plumbing, etc, pull permits, etc on your own property)
When I retired from aerospace 13 years ago and volunteered at habitat after 50 years of designing airplane power systems, easy and productive to wire habitat houses. 20 or so years ago, habitat pulled permits and owner and volunteers did not need to be licensed. Then the L&I gurus changed the interpretation of 'owner' and required licensed electricians for HFH buildings. So, after 50 years of electrical work I had to get $14 learners permit to work on wiring habitat houses as a volunteer.

the other WA constitutional highlight is no income tax, the politicos try every few years for a constitutional amenedment, never hve gotten the 60%
 
junkhound said:
interpretation of state laws is interesting.

wa state has DIY essentially embedded in state constitution (you can do electrical, plumbing, etc, pull permits, etc on your own property)
When I retired from aerospace 13 years ago and volunteered at habitat after 50 years of designing airplane power systems, easy and productive to wire habitat houses. 20 or so years ago, habitat pulled permits and owner and volunteers did not need to be licensed. Then the L&I gurus changed the interpretation of 'owner' and required licensed electricians for HFH buildings. So, after 50 years of electrical work I had to get $14 learners permit to work on wiring habitat houses as a volunteer.

the other WA constitutional highlight is no income tax, the politicos try every few years for a constitutional amenedment, never hve gotten the 60%
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You can do the same in NJ as well, as long as it is a single family home that you have for personal use.
 
W@ttson said:
What do EE PEs do on jobs for say a skyscraper?

I understand Electricians are licensed to install the infrastructure, and EE PE is not.

What can an EE PE do that a Master electrician cannot?

Is this this a case of all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares?

Master electricians can do every aspect of an electrical install but EE PE can only do some? Or is it that a master electrician can do all aspects of the work (design and install) as long it’s his own work?
Click to expand...
I think it really depends on the state as others states, for example in NYC if the service is 1000kVA or larger, it needs to be designed by a PE

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_4000-01.pdf

What constitutes the size of the service you may ask? All the service switch amperage combined and converting all service switch total amps to VA
 
I have a related question.
I have an EE degree and in Wisconsin, if I pass the Master Exam, I can get the Master License without apprenticeship. My purpose for pursuing this is that my wife and I are building a new home and I want to do the electrical myself. (Did our present home 30 years ago when the rules were different.)

Though I could pass the exam and pull a permit, I think it would be valuable to also have some OTJ experience in residential electrical to improve my skill and experience. How might I approach an electrical contractor to say something like this: "Hey, I'll work for you 1/2 time for no cost to you just for the experience"? Any special considerations I should have in mind?
 
I am both a EE and master electrician in the State of Washington. received my BSEE in 1978 and became a licensed electrician in 2003. the state did not give any credit for the double E for the hours of work experience required, nor the 20 years of submarine service. I love living in both worlds. I take on interesting jobs: designed and installed: a solar manufacturing plant using Chinese 360/208v power in parts of the plant. a farm with a separately derived utility-solar-battery system (not inverter integrated), seasonally dependent; etc. downside is the learning curves are steep and costly, lose a lot of income while learning. I do both the design and install on the same job. if you really want to enjoy your job, go for it
 
Tainted said:
I think it really depends on the state as others states, for example in NYC if the service is 1000kVA or larger, it needs to be designed by a PE

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_4000-01.pdf

What constitutes the size of the service you may ask? All the service switch amperage combined and converting all service switch total amps to VA
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Reviewing the topic of this post, the funny thing about NY and the PE licensure law is that the person that signs and seals the plans say for that service that is 1000KVA or greater, needs to be a PE. Note not a EE PE. As long as they are a PE and practicing within their technical ability OR they have supervised the people who did the design and retained responsible charge, you can be a Mechanical engineer PE, Structural engineer PE and still sign and seal those plans. Kind of interesting how those things work with how we have been discussing the topic of licensure.
 
paullmullen said:
I have a related question.
I have an EE degree and in Wisconsin, if I pass the Master Exam, I can get the Master License without apprenticeship. My purpose for pursuing this is that my wife and I are building a new home and I want to do the electrical myself. (Did our present home 30 years ago when the rules were different.)

Though I could pass the exam and pull a permit, I think it would be valuable to also have some OTJ experience in residential electrical to improve my skill and experience. How might I approach an electrical contractor to say something like this: "Hey, I'll work for you 1/2 time for no cost to you just for the experience"? Any special considerations I should have in mind?
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Thats really interesting. I knew there would be some states out there that were more lenient, but did not know which.

I guess the long route to getting licensed in NY or NJ as a master electrician while being a EE PE is to get your license in Wisconsin, and try to transfer that time to NY/NJ.
 
paullmullen said:
I have a related question.
I have an EE degree and in Wisconsin, if I pass the Master Exam, I can get the Master License without apprenticeship. My purpose for pursuing this is that my wife and I are building a new home and I want to do the electrical myself. (Did our present home 30 years ago when the rules were different.)

Though I could pass the exam and pull a permit, I think it would be valuable to also have some OTJ experience in residential electrical to improve my skill and experience. How might I approach an electrical contractor to say something like this: "Hey, I'll work for you 1/2 time for no cost to you just for the experience"? Any special considerations I should have in mind?
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Seems like a lot to go thru just so you can do your own electrical on your house. Isnt there someone cheaper and better at it than you that you can get to do it? I would be very cautious with that plan. Engineers seem to often thing they can do installations and the the results are often atrocious.
 
W@ttson said:
Reviewing the topic of this post, the funny thing about NY and the PE licensure law is that the person that signs and seals the plans say for that service that is 1000KVA or greater, needs to be a PE. Note not a EE PE. As long as they are a PE and practicing within their technical ability OR they have supervised the people who did the design and retained responsible charge, you can be a Mechanical engineer PE, Structural engineer PE and still sign and seal those plans. Kind of interesting how those things work with how we have been discussing the topic of licensure.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that is the case mostly everywhere.
 
W@ttson said:
Reviewing the topic of this post, the funny thing about NY and the PE licensure law is that the person that signs and seals the plans say for that service that is 1000KVA or greater, needs to be a PE. Note not a EE PE. As long as they are a PE and practicing within their technical ability OR they have supervised the people who did the design and retained responsible charge, you can be a Mechanical engineer PE, Structural engineer PE and still sign and seal those plans. Kind of interesting how those things work with how we have been discussing the topic of licensure.
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In NYC, an architect can stamp mechanical, electrical and plumbing too. My PE boss and previous PE boss stamped all plans, mechanical electrical and plumbing.

My boss bought me a stamp and I haven't even used it yet lol. I'm a fairly new PE

Wish I could be the jack of all trades though
 
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Note that other codes or standards may require that a PE be specifically experienced in what he/she is stamping. For example, 240.86 in the NEC states:

(A) Selected Under Engineering Supervision in Existing Installations. The series rated combination devices shall be selected by a licensed professional engineer engaged primarily in the design or maintenance of electrical installations. The selection shall be documented and stamped by the professional engineer.
 
electrofelon said:
Note that other codes or standards may require that a PE be specifically experienced in what he/she is stamping. For example, 240.86 in the NEC states:

(A) Selected Under Engineering Supervision in Existing Installations. The series rated combination devices shall be selected by a licensed professional engineer engaged primarily in the design or maintenance of electrical installations. The selection shall be documented and stamped by the professional engineer.
Click to expand...
I think this is where oregon is different. They let a facility supervisor license holder can do fault calcs for the facility and even decide what methods to achieve proper tourqe on terminals.
 
I am both. I have a BSEE and MSIT; I am not a PE (For me, there was never a need to get one). I am a licensed master electrician in 3 States. I have been doing controls engineering and electrical installation for the last 30+ years. I did not have to use/proof was educational credits to substitute for the required hours, because I had more than enough time (hands on) to cover it.
As an engineer, I have been making a good living, however, do not take away the potential to earn so much more as an electrical contracting. I like the physical work, as much as the programming etc. I enjoy both. My suggestion is to utilize both if you can; double income.
 
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