Wall Mount/ baseboard heater Code question

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organick said:
So that reads that in addition to the circuit for the washer?? is that right. SO I have a dedicated circuit for outlets in addition and that cant have anything else?? Mine currently has one outlet on the outside of the room and 2 inside and that was permitted and inspected.

Just trying to make sure I am reading that right.?


Jim the room is like 90 sq ft and it does really need to even been livable just warm.
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OK so assume no connection to air conditioning heat / cool

If that is the case i would think far larger because no reason to heat till being used and then want it fast.
We even get cold here in Tampa. We were below 30's this week
 
jumper said:
Now I am getting confused. Answer Chris' question. Is the washing machine on its own circuit? The circuit in question only feeds three additional convenience receptacles?
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I assume he means in laundry room and that falls under same problem. Another time when NEC creates a hazard rather than preventing one. Would be far safer hard wired but if i could not easily add circuit then would use plug in space heater.
 
ok

there is one circuit for the washer....obviously one for dryer.....then a 20 amp circuit GFCI with 3 outlets. So yes 2 seperate circuits.

Thanks
 
raider1 said:
Is there already a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the washing machine?

If there is and you are wanting to come off an additional circuit that would be OK.

In your original post you did not indicated that there was more than 1 circuit for the laundry.

Chris
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So let me see if i understand.....Are you saying if the washer is dedicated then the other outlets are ok to come off of under code??? that the dedicated laundry circuit is met by having the washer alone?
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
OK so assume no connection to air conditioning heat / cool

If that is the case i would think far larger because no reason to heat till being used and then want it fast.
We even get cold here in Tampa. We were below 30's this week
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Jim I need it to stay warm enough to not freeze the water lines all time. Just something to keep the room maybe 55. No connection to heat or ac otherwise.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I assume he means in laundry room and that falls under same problem. Another time when NEC creates a hazard rather than preventing one. Would be far safer hard wired but if i could not easily add circuit then would use plug in space heater.
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so jim are you saying i still need another circuit even with the 20 amp for washer and 20 amp for gfci circuit?? can't come off the washer can I?
 
organick said:
so jim are you saying i still need another circuit even with the 20 amp for washer and 20 amp for gfci circuit?? can't come off the washer can I?
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210.11(C)(2)

(2) Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided
to supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by
210.52(F). This circuit shall have no other outlets.

As stupid as it seems ,no you can't use that circuit.

Now if you remove the unrequired extra receptacles then you could use that circuit
 
organick said:
So let me see if i understand.....Are you saying if the washer is dedicated then the other outlets are ok to come off of under code??? that the dedicated laundry circuit is met by having the washer alone?
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210.11(C)(2) requires at least one 20 amp circuit to supply 120 volt receptacles in the laundry. This can be a circuit to supply a duplex receptacle for the washer alone. This required laundry circuit can't supply other load other than receptacles within the laundry area.

Now you are permitted to install additional circuits beyond the one required circuit in the laundry area and these circuit could have other loads such as a heater provided that the heater does not exceed 50% of the branch circuit ampere rating. (See 210.23(A)(2))

Chris
 
raider1 said:
210.11(C)(2) requires at least one 20 amp circuit to supply 120 volt receptacles in the laundry. This can be a circuit to supply a duplex receptacle for the washer alone. This required laundry circuit can't supply other load other than receptacles within the laundry area.

Now you are permitted to install additional circuits beyond the one required circuit in the laundry area and these circuit could have other loads such as a heater provided that the heater does not exceed 50% of the branch circuit ampere rating. (See 210.23(A)(2))

Chris
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Thats not what it says.
says you can have more than one circuit for them but they can't have other loads
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Thats not what it says.
says you can have more than one circuit for them but they can't have other loads
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Yes you can have more than one laundry circuit but it does not require more than 1 circuit.

Jim W in Tampa said:
It says laundry receptacleS
That to me means more than 1 and did not say for the washer
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210.11(C)(2) requires at least one 20 amp circuit to supply the laundry receptacles outlets required by 210.52(F) and this circuit shall have no other outlets.

Now 210.52(F) requires at least 1 receptacle for the laundry. This section does not require more than 1 receptacle for the laundry.

So I run a 20 amp circuit to supply a duplex receptacle for the washing machine, then I choose to run a second 15 amp circuit to supply receptacles on the counter next to the washer is this an NEC violation?

Chris
 
Being the other receptacles are in the laundry room how can we not call them laundry receptacles ? It clearly says 1 or more. More was not required but the S is in there and because they are there they are laundry receptacles ,therefore no other outlets.

Note that I don't like it and think the rule is stupid but just reading what it says.
Would I do it in my own house YES but it be a violation in my opinion
 
raider1 said:
Yes you can have more than one laundry circuit but it does not require more than 1 circuit.



210.11(C)(2) requires at least one 20 amp circuit to supply the laundry receptacles outlets required by 210.52(F) and this circuit shall have no other outlets.

Now 210.52(F) requires at least 1 receptacle for the laundry. This section does not require more than 1 receptacle for the laundry.

So I run a 20 amp circuit to supply a duplex receptacle for the washing machine, then I choose to run a second 15 amp circuit to supply receptacles on the counter next to the washer is this an NEC violation?

Chris
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Or visa versa.

Jim W in Tampa said:
Being the other receptacles are in the laundry room how can we not call them laundry receptacles ? It clearly says 1 or more. More was not required but the S is in there and because they are there they are laundry receptacles ,therefore no other outlets.

Note that I don't like it and think the rule is stupid but just reading what it says.
Would I do it in my own house YES but it be a violation in my opinion
Click to expand...

You can call it anything you like.
Where is "1 or more"?
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
"outlet(s) " that means 1 or more does it not ?
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Take a deep breath, clear your mind and read again. That is what I do. Doesn't always work but I stll do it.

Now 210.11(C)(2) limits you to the laundry 'room' and prohibits switches, lights etc. to be on the circuit.

210.52(F) just requires one but does not limit us on the number.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
"outlet(s) " that means 1 or more does it not ?
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210.11(C)(2) says receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(F).

210.52(F) only requires 1 receptacle outlet.

What 210.11(C)(2) permits is more than 1 receptacle outlet to be installed on the required laundry branch circuit, but it does not require that all receptacles installed in the laundry area to be installed on that required circuit.

Chris
 
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