Power Bridge

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al hildenbrand said:
Well, that is the question. Does it say what you say it says.

When I read 210.50 I see required locations in 210.52 thru 210.63, and 210.50(C) for specific appliances.

I just don't see a wall hung TV as a specific appliance.
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So a TV is now not an appliance?

If the receptacle is not within reach of the plug, how can the receptacle energize the plug as required by 400.7(B)?
(B) Attachment Plugs. Where used as permitted in 400.7(A)(3), (A)(6), and (A)(8), each flexible cord shall be equipped with an attachment plug and shall be energized from a receptacle outlet.
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mivey said:
If the code requires a receptacle where there is a plug, it should be self-evident that the plug is meant to be inserted into the receptacle.
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No, that's not self-evident. You have to go by what the code says, and it doesn't say that the installed receptacle shall be used to energize the cord and attachment plug.

So if you interpret 210.50(B) to say that anything that has a plug needs to be within reach of a receptacle outlet, nothing prohibits also providing an alternative means to energize the appliance. Like the PowerBridge. Or like running an extension cord to a different receptacle, for whatever reason.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
it doesn't say that the installed receptacle shall be used to energize the cord and attachment plug
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400.7(B): Attachment Plugs. Where used as permitted in 400.7(A)(3), (A)(6), and (A)(8), each flexible cord shall be equipped with an attachment plug and shall be energized from a receptacle outlet.
 
mivey said:
So a TV is now not an appliance?
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I did not write "appliance". I wrote "specific appliance", quoting the NEC.
mivey said:
If the receptacle is not within reach of the plug, how can the receptacle energize the plug as required by 400.7(B)?
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This does not say "directly". Nothing in this statement precludes the energizing of the attachment plug from a cord connector on a cord plugged into a receptacle outlet.
 
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mivey said:
400.7(B): Attachment Plugs. Where used as permitted in 400.7(A)(3), (A)(6), and (A)(8), each flexible cord shall be equipped with an attachment plug and shall be energized from a receptacle outlet.
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Well, the PowerBridge gets its power from a receptacle outlet. Just like a cord-and-plug connected UPS does. That satsifies 400.7(B).

Nothing says that the attachment plug has to be directly inserted into the receptacle outlet. Such a requirement would prohibits extension cords, power taps, cord and plug connected UPSes, etc.

Cheers, Wayne
 
al hildenbrand said:
Moreover, the Article 100 Definition of Receptacle Outlet doesn't say that it must be connected to the Premises Wiring (System).
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I'm going to have to disagree with you that: a receptacle outlet is, according to the definition, an outlet; and an outlet is a point on the Premises Wiring System. Even though the "outlet" definition doesn't use the word "premises", the Premises WIring System definition references outlets.

Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you that: a receptacle outlet is, according to the definition, an outlet; and an outlet is a point on the Premises Wiring System. Even though the "outlet" definition doesn't use the word "premises", the Premises WIring System definition references outlets.
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You're correct Wayne. I didn't drop it quick enough.

Although, the definition of Outlet doesn't actually say "Premises Wiring (System)", merely "wiring system".

One might argue that a PowerBridge is a wiring system.
 
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wwhitney said:
No, it's a controller. :) Since no one has responded to my comments to that regard, everyone must be in agreement. :)

Cheers, Wayne
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{Laughing] Thanks, Wayne! You did indeed cheer me.:grin: [/Laughing}
 
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al hildenbrand said:
This does not say "directly". Nothing in this statement precludes the energizing of the attachment plug from a cord connector on a cord plugged into a receptacle outlet.
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A cord connector is not a receptacle.

wwhitney said:
Nothing says that the attachment plug has to be directly inserted into the receptacle outlet.
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From NC Department of Health and Human Services (you should read it all):


...If electrical power is needed, it is the intent of the regulations that a permanent outlet be installed at a location accessible to the appliance and its power supply cord.

On October 30, 1996, the Safety and Health Director in his then-role as NCOSH Safety Compliance Officer contacted via telephone Mr. Mark Ode, Senior Electrical Specialist with the National Fire Protection Association. Mr. Ode confirmed that it was the intent of the National Electrical Code to require the installation of permanently mounted receptacle outlets wherever cord-and-plug powered equipment was installed, and that the space between the outlet and the equipment should be no greater than the length of the equipment's flexible cord.
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wwhitney said:
Such a requirement would prohibits extension cords, power taps, cord and plug connected UPSes, etc.
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Not so. From the same link:
From a 1993 OSHA letter of interpretation:
If the temporary power taps are being used to provide transient voltage surge suppression, then these devices would meet the OSHA standards. If the temporary power taps are being used solely as wiring to provide extra or more convenient outlets, then this is a violation of 29 CFR 1910.305(g)(1)(iii)(A)....
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In other words, the purpose of the power strip is to protect equipment from unexpected surges in the voltage which could damage or destroy such equipment, and not to merely extend the flow of electrical energy to reach the equipment at a convenient location, which is the function of an extension cord. This makes the power strip a "device" or appliance, as opposed to "wiring."
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mivey said:
A cord connector is not a receptacle.
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I did not say it was. I did say nothing says the cord must be "directly" plugged into a receptacle outlet.
mivey said:
From NC Department of Health and Human Services (you should read it all):
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Not so. From the same link:
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Both of those are out of date. Back then Relocatable Power Taps were called Temporary Power Taps by the White Book. The word "temporary" was changed.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm".
 
From NC Department of Health and Human Services (you should read it all):


Is this the basis you are now making claim to not using a PowerBridge?

Huh, last I checked, the PowerBridge "kit" Assembly has a Recognized outlet receptacle which is installed directly behind the equipment as described. The TV cord will not be located further than the length of to plug into the supplied recessed outlet receptacle

If you're reference is to the INLET wall plate and the cord supplied, it's 6'. I'm pretty certain most walls in most structures, (not inclusive of walls not permitted to have outlets) have outlets installed to the premise wiring system within reach of 6' of each other.
Okay, let's say I'm not correct in this assumption, who says the in-wall wiring NM/MC has to be installed within a specific distance between the receptacle at the TV and the receptacle located at the source equipment, even if it is remote located.

PowerBridge does not cite the NM or MC has to remain within a straight line down from the TV, install it 75' apart. The INLET would normally be installed where the AV source equipment is, mainly because the AV cable routed within the wall connecting the TV and DVD/cable box will be, in general, the same location those devices are plugged into. Oh and if there is a surge protector/UPS, the extra benefit is applied from the same premise circuit and thus preventing the transmission of noise. Hey, that's another Permitted USE of the power supply cord! (400.7 (7))
WINNING!!! Duh!;)
Couldn't resist, this thread goes in that direction, sounding like that wackadoo sometimes.
 
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PowerBridgeTech said:
Is this the basis you are now making claim to not using a PowerBridge?
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It speaks to the substitution question.

PowerBridgeTech said:
Huh, last I checked, the PowerBridge "kit" Assembly has a Recognized outlet receptacle which is installed directly behind the equipment as described. The TV cord will not be located further than the length of to plug into the supplied recessed outlet receptacle
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So when it is convenient on one hand, it is part of the fixed wiring but when it is convenient on the other hand, it is just an extension cord and not part of the fixed wiring?

But we have been all over the place on both sides haven't we?;)

PowerBridgeTech said:
If you're reference is to the INLET wall plate and the cord supplied, it's 6'. I'm pretty certain most walls in most structures, (not inclusive of walls not permitted to have outlets) have outlets installed to the premise wiring system within reach of 6' of each other.
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Not talking about that.

PowerBridgeTech said:
Okay, let's say I'm not correct in this assumption, who says the in-wall wiring NM/MC has to be installed within a specific distance between the receptacle at the TV and the receptacle located at the source equipment, even if it is remote located.
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No one mentioned the NM/MC cable, unless I missed a post.
 
al hildenbrand said:
If you can quote the Code convincingly, you'll win me over. That alone isn't much, but it'll also convince others.
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I have posted the code. If you choose to read the words differently, I can't force you to do otherwise.

I have shown you OSHA interpretations, NFPA specialist's opinions, and code enforcement agency opinions that agree with the way I read it but that will not prevent you from reading it the way you want.
 
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